Full IMAX Godzilla Info Direct From The Filmmakers

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Postby ryuuseipro » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:58 pm

Thanks for the news, Keith!

So it's Deathla after all! And designed by Syd Mead, no less! :D

I still wonder if Godzilla will be suitmation or CGI, though. Either way, I'm at peace with whatever happens.

I'm all for Godzilla being a kids' hero (which I grew up with), so I'm not surprised to see some fans already harping over this, let alone the scripted flying scene (whether it will be used or not; After all, Toho is consulting with Banno over the Godzilla character)!

Sounds pretty exciting! Sure it's 40-45 minutes, but then, so are most of the other IMAX movies I've sat through!
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Postby Aaron Smith » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:16 pm

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Postby canofhumdingers » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:31 pm

Deathla Star? HA! does Luke Smogkiller blow it up? this sounds every bit as crazy as G vs Hedorah!
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Postby jkrouskop » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:56 pm

Glow-nut wrote:
jkrouskop wrote:I believe I stated in my post that "with home video revenues" it would easily make back its money. Unlike most other IMAX films, whose appeal is limited to their IMAX presentation, a Godzilla film has a broad commercial appeal


Godzilla doesn't have broad commercial appeal. I'm not happy about it, but that's the reality. If he did, the movies would be more financially successful in Japan, would have gotten wide US theatrical releases, Bandai wouldn't have cancelled their GFW toy line, the US toy line would have taken off, etc.


So you've obviously never worked anywhere where Godzilla videos are sold retail. Because they sell very well (if they are sold at a "sell-through" price) to kids and adults with kids. The argument that declining box-office in Japan and few theatrical US releases means Godzilla doesn't sell is a skewed fan perspective. Godzilla videos have always sold well here in the States and in other western nations, and always will. That's called "having a broad commercial appeal". If that weren't true, we wouldn't have had every Toho Godzilla save GFW (which is on its way) released here in the US on home video, most multiple times.

I'll bet you $18 million that if this film gets released and distributed worldwide as planned, it'll make back its $9 million budget.
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Postby Joseph Goodman » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:58 pm

Also keep in mind folks, some of these IMAX shorts run for YEARS... more than enough time to make a profit.
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Postby Glow-nut » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:25 pm

jkrouskop wrote:So you've obviously never worked anywhere where Godzilla videos are sold retail. Because they sell very well


Baloney. The Showa Godzilla movies have been unavailable for years until only recently. If these things were the hot commodities you think they are, there would have been all kinds of VHS & DVD releases, not just the scant few VHS releases across 2-3 decades and the nearly bare-bones DVD releases we've got now.

jkrouskop wrote:I'll bet you $18 million that if this film gets released and distributed worldwide as planned, it'll make back its $9 million budget.


I doubt you'll ever have to back that up, because people would be crazy to back this film. Looking at the "Allocation of Earnings" page shows that this movie won't even recoup it's expenses for the investors unless it earns 57 million dollars globally (that's 65% of T-Rex 3D's numbers).

That means it has to be in the Top 10 IMAX films of all time, just for investors to break even. A person would either have to be nuts or have a lot of faith in this movie to buy in to something that risky.

I was pretty confused about the profit #s for a while, because the table on that site doesn't match up with the reported earnings for T-Rex 3D, until I realized that they're only getting $2.40 of each ticket sold back from the theaters (which is much worse than what I originally assumed).
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:32 pm

So Toho is treating this like a fan-film instead of their own production (which it is, I suppose), and its gonna be only 40 minutes, but with a budget of 9 million?

I see.....
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:36 pm

Oh yeah, and Godzilla is still alive and well in the states. In fact, he's bigger HERE than he is in Japan, and the DVDs and VHS tapes have always sold well. Them not being available until only recently has to do with licensing and getting the rights, not with how well they could sell. Tristar invests a lot in getting the rights to these films, and they are one of the biggest film distributors in the country. And besides, Banno already said if he can get this movie made, he's bringing it to the states. And there are only 234 Imax theaters IN THE WORLD, and most of them are in the states. Only 16 IMAX theaters are in the whole country of Japan. So I'm betting that it will AT LEAST see a limited US release, since its almost being made ENTIRLEY for US theaters.
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Postby Glow-nut » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:51 pm

MouthForWar wrote:Oh yeah, and Godzilla is still alive and well in the states.


As evidenced by the success of the Bandai Creation line or the way the X-Plus USA figures have taken off?

MouthForWar wrote:In fact, he's bigger HERE than he is in Japan, and the DVDs and VHS tapes have always sold well. Them not being available until only recently has to do with licensing and getting the rights, not with how well they could sell.


If there was evidence they would sell well, companies would have acquired the rights.

MouthForWar wrote:Tristar invests a lot in getting the rights to these films,


When Columbia Tristar bought the film rights to Godzilla 2000 they only spent $1 million. They spent about 9 times as much advertising the thing, and lost money (until home video sales).

Do the movies make some money for Columbia? Sure, otherwise they wouldn't waste their time at all. But I don't believe they're the big sellers you think, and you haven't offered any proof to the contrary. In fact, it's been quoted here repeatedly that if it wasn't for Mike Schlesinger's intervention (for which, btw, I'm very grateful) Sony/Columbia probably wouldn't even be involved with Godzilla.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:57 pm

Just because people aren't hardcore fans that want to buy figures and such, doesn't mean the videos don't sell well. The DVDs and videos sell well and always have. Besides, none of the figures you mentioned were even available at mainstream toy shops like Toys R Us. Remember the Trendmasters line? Those sold GREAT for about 2 or 3 years, then it fizzled out a bit after when they stopped marketing the figures well. At G-Fest, Mr. Ishii, who has been working at Toho for about 10 years even said that Godzilla is WAAAAAAAY bigger in the US than it is in Japan.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:00 pm

Glow-nut wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:Oh yeah, and Godzilla is still alive and well in the states.


As evidenced by the success of the Bandai Creation line or the way the X-Plus USA figures have taken off?

MouthForWar wrote:In fact, he's bigger HERE than he is in Japan, and the DVDs and VHS tapes have always sold well. Them not being available until only recently has to do with licensing and getting the rights, not with how well they could sell.


If there was evidence they would sell well, companies would have acquired the rights.



That's easier said than done. Getting the rights to a film is always hard, no matter who is involved.
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Postby Metalliza » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:00 pm

Glow-nut wrote:Baloney. The Showa Godzilla movies have been unavailable for years until only recently.


:lol:
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Postby kpa » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:09 pm

ScottA wrote:
the planned short feature will combine the talents of Toho Studios with cutting-edge Hollywood CG and 3-D effects, all on display on the eight- story tall IMAX movie screen.


Hey Keith. I was hoping the article would clear up whether Godzilla himself is CG. It just says CG is being used in a non specific manner.
Do you happen to know anything about that?


I haven't heard anything from an official source about an all-CGI Godzilla. Fx director Eiichi Asada is a critic of the overreliance of CGI these days and prefers the classic effects of Eiji Tsuburaya, so I'm expecting a mix of traditional and computer effects.
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Postby Glow-nut » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:10 pm

MouthForWar wrote:Just because people aren't hardcore fans that want to buy figures and such, doesn't mean the videos don't sell well.


We're not talking about $50 collectors pieces here. We're talking about $10 toys for kids.

MouthForWar wrote:Besides, none of the figures you mentioned were even available at mainstream toy shops like Toys R Us.


They were available at KB Toys. Toys-R-Us and other retailers declined to sell them ... because they'd be such hot items it would be too much work to keep them in stock, I guess. :roll:

MouthForWar wrote:At G-Fest, Mr. Ishii, who has been working at Toho for about 10 years even said that Godzilla is WAAAAAAAY bigger in the US than it is in Japan.


Maybe he is, but is that really saying very much (notice the poor performance of the films in Japan)? Most importantly is it enough to sell 6.9 million IMAX tickets at a total sales figure of $55-$57 million dollars? Because that's what they'll have to do just to break even.
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Postby Kaiju Nexus » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:03 pm

Ugh.

This move sounds like utter, utter crap. UTTER.

Why?

A. 9/11 references...like...wow. Why are those even necessary. I'm no sappy, patriotic nut, but that's just completely unecessary. What the hell is the point of that other than to throw some faux meaning into the film...

B. Children's prayers revive Godzilla? Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. WTF, Banno, WTF?

C. IMAX. Oh yeah, big screen, 3-D...freakin awesome...IF it winds up on DVD. Otherwise, you'll most likely never see it again after it leaves the theaters. And personally, as cool as IMAX is, it's much more of a novelty to me than anything else. I'd much prefer a normal film over some flashy, 3-D gimmick.

D. Toho's not entirely involved. I mean, doesn't this all sound familiar? Director approaches Toho about using Godzilla in a film? He claims he wants to make Godzilla bigger than ever? Do I smell GINO 3D to the Max? Banno could go completely out of control with this, and frankly, it sounds like he already has.

E. 9/11...again. Cmon, wtf.



However, I will admit there are some good points. Deathla (though the name is entirely uninspired) sounds intriguing and kick-ass enough. I love the Brazilian setting. Very cool. ...er, yeah, that's about it. lol.
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Postby Robert Saint John » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:24 pm

I'm a bit with Glow-nut on this one. I think we as fans tend to overestimate the popularity and marketability of the franchise in the States, despite so much evidence to the contrary.

Even the contention that "the DVDs have always sold well" is vague and hard to support. A niche title of DVDs is a run of about 10,000 units. For something comparable in popularity, a really good run of an anime title will be about 15,000 units. Something with broader appeal, like The Simpsons, still only sells 50,000 in a year, but that's considered "succesful enough". I suspect the typical CTHE Godzilla title of late is probably around 15 - 20,000 units at best. "Gold" is 125,000 units and "Platinum" is 250,000 units, and there hasn't been a Godzilla title on Billboard's or Videoscan's charts since GINO!

I'm not saying that Godzilla titles perform poorly. Sony/CTHE wouldn't bother if they did. They perform "good enough". But in terms of profit after manufacturing and licensing, it takes a long time and a lot of units to make a million dollars off of a DVD title.

monsterzero wrote:http://godzilla3d.com/en/index.html


Nice find, Aaron!
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Postby ScottA » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:47 pm

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Too bad we won't see old smoggy again though.
I hope the new design is as cool as he was.
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Postby jkrouskop » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:03 pm

mechascorpio wrote:I'm a bit with Glow-nut on this one. I think we as fans tend to overestimate the popularity and marketability of the franchise in the States, despite so much evidence to the contrary.

Even the contention that "the DVDs have always sold well" is vague and hard to support. A niche title of DVDs is a run of about 10,000 units. For something comparable in popularity, a really good run of an anime title will be about 15,000 units. Something with broader appeal, like The Simpsons, still only sells 50,000 in a year, but that's considered "succesful enough". I suspect the typical CTHE Godzilla title of late is probably around 15 - 20,000 units at best. "Gold" is 125,000 units and "Platinum" is 250,000 units, and there hasn't been a Godzilla title on Billboard's or Videoscan's charts since GINO!

I'm not saying that Godzilla titles perform poorly. Sony/CTHE wouldn't bother if they did. They perform "good enough". But in terms of profit after manufacturing and licensing, it takes a long time and a lot of units to make a million dollars off of a DVD title.

monsterzero wrote:http://godzilla3d.com/en/index.html


Nice find, Aaron!



And when you take your GUESS of 15-20,000 units and factor in the non-existent promtional costs and threadbare packaging, distribution and manufacturing costs, you get a tidy profit indeed. And that guess of 15-20,000 units, if I read it correctly, was for recent titles, which are hardly released at "sell-through" prices. It costs Sony very little to acquire the films and less to package and distribute the discs, meaning a big chunk of the revenue is profit. It isn't the number of units sold. It's the difference between the initial investment and the return (the profit) that ultimately determines whether a title is successful or not.

If they weren't making money for Sony, they'd never get here. Period. And older titles sold at sell-through prices move even better than the new, higher priced stuff. How do I know? Because I work in retail and have for 20 years, give or take. Media Play, Hollywood Video, Target and Half Price Books are all places I have worked during that time which have sold Godzilla films, and they have moved very well in every one of those places (and don't think I haven't paid very close attention to this, because I have). Unless I live in a particularly "Godzilla happy" part of the world, I'd say a two-decade trend of these tapes and DVDs moving at a pretty steady rate is solid evidence that Godzilla retains his selling power on home video.
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Postby Danny B » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:10 pm

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^Nice animation, Scott!

I guess only time will tell what'll happen with this Imax project. Still, it gives us G-fans more to discuss and look forward to.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:14 pm

Glow-nut wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:Just because people aren't hardcore fans that want to buy figures and such, doesn't mean the videos don't sell well.


We're not talking about $50 collectors pieces here. We're talking about $10 toys for kids.

MouthForWar wrote:Besides, none of the figures you mentioned were even available at mainstream toy shops like Toys R Us.


They were available at KB Toys. Toys-R-Us and other retailers declined to sell them ... because they'd be such hot items it would be too much work to keep them in stock, I guess. :roll:

MouthForWar wrote:At G-Fest, Mr. Ishii, who has been working at Toho for about 10 years even said that Godzilla is WAAAAAAAY bigger in the US than it is in Japan.


Maybe he is, but is that really saying very much (notice the poor performance of the films in Japan)? Most importantly is it enough to sell 6.9 million IMAX tickets at a total sales figure of $55-$57 million dollars? Because that's what they'll have to do just to break even.


STill, none of that takes away from the fact that your point was moot. I'm a die hard kaiju eiga fan and don't own ANY of the Bandai Creation or X-Plus figures. I have a bunch of Japanese Bandais, most of which I got over 10 years ago, and since then I really haven't bought ANY of the figures. You dont need toys to be a fan. I love comic books (Batman, Spider-Man/Venom, X-Men, etc.) and don't have ANY of the figures but I still own the movies. More people buy movies than toys, I hate to break it to you. Just because the films don't break onto any charts doesn't mean there aren't tons of people that care to see them. Besides, you aren't including rentals here either, which is a huge part of the video market. Just because its not Star Wars doesn't mean it can't get a limited release here. IMAX movies don't make much money at all to begin with.

Not to mention, they only need that much for GLOBAL release. Its almost guaranteed that this will see release in Japan and the U.S.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:20 pm

Kaiju Nexus wrote:Ugh.

This move sounds like utter, utter crap. UTTER.

Why?

A. 9/11 references...like...wow. Why are those even necessary. I'm no sappy, patriotic nut, but that's just completely unecessary. What the hell is the point of that other than to throw some faux meaning into the film...

B. Children's prayers revive Godzilla? Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. WTF, Banno, WTF?

C. IMAX. Oh yeah, big screen, 3-D...freakin awesome...IF it winds up on DVD. Otherwise, you'll most likely never see it again after it leaves the theaters. And personally, as cool as IMAX is, it's much more of a novelty to me than anything else. I'd much prefer a normal film over some flashy, 3-D gimmick.

D. Toho's not entirely involved. I mean, doesn't this all sound familiar? Director approaches Toho about using Godzilla in a film? He claims he wants to make Godzilla bigger than ever? Do I smell GINO 3D to the Max? Banno could go completely out of control with this, and frankly, it sounds like he already has.

E. 9/11...again. Cmon, wtf.



However, I will admit there are some good points. Deathla (though the name is entirely uninspired) sounds intriguing and kick-ass enough. I love the Brazilian setting. Very cool. ...er, yeah, that's about it. lol.


A. Its no different than including WW2 in Godzilla movies. Its an event that happened and its always gonna be referenced.

B.Kids have always been a huge part of Godzilla's audience, and the films are either for them or a general audience. Stop taking it so seriously.

C. 3-D kaiju on an IMAX screen is gonna rule, novelty or not.

D. Its NOT A TOHO FILM SO YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT NOTHING! Besides, saying it could be another GINO is just dumb.

E. It happened, deal with it.

Its a fan film with distribution from Toho. Its not a Toho film so you shouldn't be concerned about it. Toho ended their series. Personally, I think it will be enjoyable, but I'm not as excited as everyone else. Not to mention Banno hasn't raised the money yet and there's still the question of if this movie will even BE MADE!
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Postby Glow-nut » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:21 pm

MouthForWar wrote:Not to mention, they only need that much for GLOBAL release. Its almost guaranteed that this will see release in Japan and the U.S.


No it isn't. They need $9 million from investors in order to make the thing. For the investors to recoup their money the film will have to be one of the best selling IMAX movies of all time (and that's just so the investors don't actually lose any money). Recent Godzilla films have faired poorly in Japan and the only one that got a wide theatrical release in the US also didn't do huge business (at best it barely covered expenses).

Now, who do you think is going to be willing to put up the $9 million?

It's one thing to be a fan and be hopeful. It's another to fly in the face of reason and think this movie is a guarantee.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:26 pm

Exactly. I said it could be guaranteed for US and Japanese release IF HE COULD GET THE MONEY. If you go to the original thread for this movie, you can see my big rant about how Banno sounded totally insane at G-Fest and how I wouldn't be surprised if this movie was never made. I was talking about distribution, not the actual production and the pitch for the film.
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Postby Aaron Smith » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:28 pm

"Now, who do you think is going to be willing to put up the $9 million? "

Wish I was a lottery winner, Banno and I would be having lunch soon :)
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Postby Glow-nut » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:33 pm

monsterzero wrote:"Now, who do you think is going to be willing to put up the $9 million? "

Wish I was a lottery winner, Banno and I would be having lunch soon :)


Yeah, but you'd also demand on a lot of creative control, suit approval, and a piece of the merchandising. The final straw would be when you insist on being cast as Mischa's romantic interest. :wink:
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