Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Discussion on Shin Godzilla and rumors, news, and speculation on other possible future Godzilla projects, including the Godzilla Anime project! Discuss them here!

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Did you like the movie?

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No
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Total votes : 58

Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:09 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:Shin Godzilla really delivered in the latter regard.

If the message is Hideaki Anno is a garbage writer, then I agree.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby lhb412 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:25 pm

tbeasley wrote: I don't see how the movie is some rightwing love letter to Shinzo Abe when the film's prime minister is depicted as an indecisive, incompetent nitwit who's blown up in his escape helicopter along with most of his similarly old-fashioned and needlessly bureaucratic colleagues. I think some are misplacing Anno and Higuchi's otaku-like love of military hardware (and there's a lot featured here) for any kind of militaristic edge.


The person next to me let out a gasp when they killed half the cast in a split second! I also liked that the replacement PM, who's initially presented as a kind of old buffoon who got the position on a technicality and is obviously out of his depth, ends up being a very practical guy, rises to the occasion, and in the end we find he's not even going to attempt to hold onto power because (apparently) of his commitment to democracy. If Yaguchi and this guy have real-world counterparts then I think this movie would be love letters to them... but as far as I know they're totally fictional.

tbeasley wrote: Ending theory - If the film was trying to depict Godzilla as a living god, then maybe the mysterious petrified tail creatures were his way of trying to recreate man in his superior image. I don't know, but it's fun to think about, and there's a lot to think about in this movie


Wasn't there a line from pink towel guy theorizing Godzilla could become smaller if he needed instead of just becoming exponentially bigger?

klen7 wrote:The cinematography was fantastic. Almost every shot (other than a couple chaotic shakey-cam shots) was beautifully framed. I'll need another viewing, but this may take the crown from The Host on best cinematography in a giant monster film.


I almost agree, but I gotta give the edge to The Host. I felt there were several similarities between the two films. They'd make an interesting double feature.

klen7 wrote:I liked the movie a lot. If i could change one thing, i would recast Anne Peterson as an American actress in her mid-late 30s. Satomi Ishihara is gorgeous, and she probably played well in Japan, but even in movie like this, it took a little extra suspension of belief to see her as being on the fast track to US President. I had a couple other issues with the character itself, but I think that comes from the perspective of an American that follows politics.


This aspect will play better in this country this year than in any other other time, because in 2016 we'll believe anyone can be president.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby daikaijusaurus » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:55 pm

My wife and I saw this the other day. Since my wife is Japanese, she just sat back and enjoyed it, while I was struggling to read every subtitle and title card of the characters lol.

All in all, we both enjoyed it, it was an entertaining movie with amazing action and humor. I think my wife appreciated the humor more than I did since she understands the bureaucracy of her county more than I do, but I got a kick out of it too.

Overall, it had a very good story and characters, I didn't find myself bored at all, but I did find Satomi Ishihara's character quiet annoying and felt the movie would've been better without her. Or even get an actual American actress instead because her English accent was horrible.

When my wife saw pictures of Shin Godzilla, she hated it! :lol: But when she actually saw it on screen she really liked it and felt the design went well with the theme and story of the movie. I liked it too actually, I thought his evolution was quiet good, although I did wish he had a 5th stage resembling more of the classic Godzilla. But oh well. His beams we really amazing, I was most impressed by this than anything else. When his spines lit up and the fire, smoke, radiation emanated from his mouth, I was like, "Oh yeah I know what's coming next!!" Exactly how I felt when Godzilla 2014's tail started lighting up!

I did find the ending a little unsatisfying. I understand that they don't want to kill him off so they'll be opening for a sequel, so I think it would've been better if he remained unstoppable. After all, you can't stop a tornado or a hurricane, you just have to wait until it goes away and better prepare for it's return.

If Toho wants to continue with more live action movies, my preference would not be a Shin Godzilla 2, but going back to the classic Toho Godzilla. I really can't see other Toho kaiju showing up in the Shin Universe, they just don't fit in unless they completely redesign their look and origins. So my hope is that Shin Godzilla is just a one shot.

It was also fun being in a theater with other Godzilla fans with their Godzilla t-shorts and toys. Nothing tops our experience with Godzilla 2014, but this was the next best thing! :D
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:52 am

jellydonut25 wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:Shin Godzilla really delivered in the latter regard.

If the message is Hideaki Anno is a garbage writer, then I agree.


I can't argue there as we have all known that since Evangelion was shat out. However, this movie is easily the best work Anno has ever done. Probably because it was only 2 hours long and didn't end with a clip show or a reset button.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:55 am

I saw it for the second time earlier tonight. I liked it before and I actually thought it was better this time around. The section when Godzilla is in stasis didn't feel nearly as slow this time. It's really just three scenes that have long stretches of silence: when the replacement Prime Minister is talking about the plan to nuke Tokyo, when Yaguchi and Akasaka are talking about the plan to nuke Tokyo, and when Kayoco and the U.S. President are talking about the French request to suspend the countdown to nuking Tokyo. Those scenes aren't superfluous or poorly done, they work unto themselves, but they do halt the movie's otherwise quick momentum. Those are minor gripes, though, because the rest of the film works so well. This is a really good Godzilla movie with a terrifically original take on the character.


Dr Kain wrote:- A Trump-ish president


He made it through the whole scene without groping Kayoco. Not very Trump-like.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby lhb412 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:21 am

Benjamin Haines wrote: It's really just three scenes that have long stretches of silence: when the replacement Prime Minister is talking about the plan to nuke Tokyo, when Yaguchi and Akasaka are talking about the plan to nuke Tokyo, and when Kayoco and the U.S. President are talking about the French request to suspend the countdown to nuking Tokyo. Those scenes aren't superfluous or poorly done, they work unto themselves, but they do halt the movie's otherwise quick momentum.


I agree with this assessment. I don't think the movie does much wrong in the final stretch, it's mostly just an interruption of the rhythm up to that point.

Benjamin Haines wrote:He made it through the whole scene without groping Kayoco. Not very Trump-like.


I heard Ed McMahon say "HEYOOO!" when I read that.*


* I'm not old enough to remember the Carson tonight show when it aired, but I did catch the compilation programs on Nick at Nite in the '90s.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:19 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:- A Trump-ish president


He made it through the whole scene without groping Kayoco. Not very Trump-like.

that guy wasn't the president. That was her dad.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby The Great MM » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:01 am

The absolute worst thing for me was that the ending wasn't even an ending. They KNOW that Godzilla's not dead. The movie should end with the monster being defeated, not just put on biological pause.


What they need to do now is transport the frozen Goji to an isolated island and let the bomb-happy America do their thing as soon as he recovers.

jellydonut25 wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:Shin Godzilla really delivered in the latter regard.

If the message is Hideaki Anno is a garbage writer, then I agree.



Heeey. I thought I was the Anti-Anno hate-boy around here... :(
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby XvGojira » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:37 pm

Dr Kain wrote:- Too many characters with no main protagonist


Really? No main protagonist? You don't think that the guy suggesting that there's a creature in the water at the beginning, puts together and leads the research team, who then names the plan to stop Godzilla after him (which he renames later), is the only main cast member to be "out in the field" during the coagulation plan, and is followed more through out the story than any other character isn't the main protagonist?

I can see, understand, and even agree with your other points but I can't see how Yaguchi isn't the protagonist.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:50 pm

XvGojira wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:- Too many characters with no main protagonist


Really? No main protagonist? You don't think that the guy suggesting that there's a creature in the water at the beginning, puts together and leads the research team, who then names the plan to stop Godzilla after him (which he renames later), is the only main cast member to be "out in the field" during the coagulation plan, and is followed more through out the story than any other character isn't the main protagonist?

I can see, understand, and even agree with your other points but I can't see how Yaguchi isn't the protagonist.


Yaguchi was hardly the main character though. He's more the main character-ish, but he isn't even developed outside of "I want to be PM in 10 years." Why wait 10 years? Why not be PM now?
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby XvGojira » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:12 pm

How is he not, though? We follow him through out the movie. He start off telling the people at the table to research stuff and they're all "Who are you addressing?" but by the end he's kind of a big deal, all because he doesn't follow the same stagnant protocol everyone else did. His development is less of a typical character development and more watching his career path drastically alter by dealing with the issue of Godzilla. And he, by far, has more screen time than anyone else in the movie.

As for the PM now thing, he's too young and too low on the totem pole to even think of it. No one would vote for a 30-something nobody to run the country, hell even in the US many though Kennedy at 43 was too young. When Kayoko was brought up they said something like "American's take talent over age", which to me, some one who doesn't know much about Japanese politics, says that Japan values age a bit more over accomplishments.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:26 pm

XvGojira wrote:How is he not, though? We follow him through out the movie. He start off telling the people at the table to research stuff and they're all "Who are you addressing?" but by the end he's kind of a big deal, all because he doesn't follow the same stagnant protocol everyone else did. His development is less of a typical character development and more watching his career path drastically alter by dealing with the issue of Godzilla. And he, by far, has more screen time than anyone else in the movie.

As for the PM now thing, he's too young and too low on the totem pole to even think of it. No one would vote for a 30-something nobody to run the country, hell even in the US many though Kennedy at 43 was too young. When Kayoko was brought up they said something like "American's take talent over age", which to me, some one who doesn't know much about Japanese politics, says that Japan values age a bit more over accomplishments.


He's clearly the main character. I've seen that complaint elsewhere and keep scratching my head. Maybe he needed a "MAIN CHARACTER" title above his head to help folks out.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby O.Supreme » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:40 pm

XvGojira wrote:As for the PM now thing, he's too young and too low on the totem pole to even think of it. No one would vote for a 30-something nobody to run the country.


Um...didn't most of the political leaders get killed off in Godzilla's main attack? I know they had that acting/interim PM towards the end, but he clearly wasn't qualified or prepared. Honestly, I cant remember any of the names of the human characters from this film, there were so many.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby XvGojira » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:53 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:He's clearly the main character. I've seen that complaint elsewhere and keep scratching my head. Maybe he needed a "MAIN CHARACTER" title above his head to help folks out.


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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:55 pm

FIXED
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby lhb412 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:46 pm

XvGojira wrote:How is he not, though? We follow him through out the movie. He start off telling the people at the table to research stuff and they're all "Who are you addressing?" but by the end he's kind of a big deal, all because he doesn't follow the same stagnant protocol everyone else did. His development is less of a typical character development and more watching his career path drastically alter by dealing with the issue of Godzilla. And he, by far, has more screen time than anyone else in the movie.


When we say 'develop' we usually mean 'change,' but Yaguchi doesn't really change as much as he rises to the occasion and reveals his capabilities. The world's understanding of him changes, but he doesn't really change aside from maybe his own self-knowledge of his abilities.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Dr Kain » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:45 am

XvGojira wrote:How is he not, though? We follow him through out the movie. He start off telling the people at the table to research stuff and they're all "Who are you addressing?" but by the end he's kind of a big deal, all because he doesn't follow the same stagnant protocol everyone else did. His development is less of a typical character development and more watching his career path drastically alter by dealing with the issue of Godzilla. And he, by far, has more screen time than anyone else in the movie.

As for the PM now thing, he's too young and too low on the totem pole to even think of it. No one would vote for a 30-something nobody to run the country,


See, I would rather have a dude in his 30s that can grown into the position than some rich bought old dude.

Honestly, there were so many characters I don't even remember which scenes had Yaguchi and which didn't. There were 50 guys that all looked the same. Hence why I said I need to see the movie like 6 more times.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Gwangi » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:44 pm

Saw it. I will give it my thumbs up, though I could clearly understand the criticisms many have had about this movie. The need to have emergency many meetings during a crisis like this is acceptable, but I didn't feel that we needed to see ALL of them! The best was that rag tag team they set up and had them headquarted in the basement.

The best scenes were definitely when Godzilla appears, with my favorite being the unleashing of his nuclear breath (clearly trying to one-up Legendary’s scene). I didn't much care for Godzilla having beams shooting from his dorsal fins or tail. But I had no problems with the special effects. I actually liked the CGI work here. Vast improvement to what we saw with Toho's Millennial films a decade ago.

Overall, it had a very good story and characters, I didn't find myself bored at all, but I did find Satomi Ishihara's character quiet annoying and felt the movie would've been better without her. Or even get an actual American actress instead because her English accent was horrible.


Same feeling here in regards to Ishhara's character, and clearly her English was phonographically learned. Someone like say Shelley Sweeney (who is fluent in both), could have been a better choice as the U.S. representative.

All in all, it was an interesting and different take on Godzilla. Next time, let us see us less of the bureaucracy. Showing it is important, don’t let it dominate the narrative!
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:52 am

I posted this in the other Shin thread -

Yeah, I hated this movie.

In my mind, this isn't really Godzilla. The idea of a monster that continuously evolving is cool, but it also makes Godzilla into something he's not. Godzilla with wings? Pssh, go away Anno, and take your Godzilla tail people with you.

Had Godzilla stopped evolving at the final form we see, I would have perfectly fine with it, but that's not the implication of what we hear in the film, nor from what we see at the end of the movie with the Godzilla people. I also HATE how stiff and lifeless Godzilla is. I also take issue with the movie itself for being overly dull during the second half. Does it have some cool moments? Sure, I liked the Tokyo destruction sequence, but after that this film drops into a free fall of non-stop talking for 40 minutes. It's boring.

I'm cool being in the minority on this one. The movie sucked and it's one of my most disliked of series.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:52 am

jellydonut25 wrote:that guy wasn't the president. That was her dad.


Really? This was posted in the spoiler thread back in the summer, apparently from a Facebook group:
So apparently US president is only shown in this with his hand as if he is Dr. Claw

Unless my memory is failing me big time, I can't recall any characters who got the Dr. Claw treatment other than the man Kayoco spoke to on the plane, which I thought was Air Force One. I've seen the movie twice but I must have missed whatever context clue indicated that was her father, Senator Patterson.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:51 pm

That wasn't her father but it also wasn't the President. He was identified as some U.S. official whose name began with a C. Can't remember what it was though.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby msweets13 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:13 pm

Saw the film last Tuesday. Been processing it ever since. Here some thoughts.

First a bit of personal history with the big G. I grew up on Godzilla during the 90's during TNT's MonsterVision. Had most of the Showa films recorded on VHS and would watch them repeatedly. As an awkward kid who struggled with making friends in Elementary school, Showa Godzilla was a wonderful escape. As I grew up, my love of Godzilla would wax and wane. As I matured out of the more childish Showa films, the more "mature" Heisei films were released by Sony. This eventually led to me having a growing interest in the older Showa films, especially Gojira. I never liked them as a kid, but now I could appreciate their underlying nuclear themes and as a reflection of the fears of the Japanese people. But then as Godzilla was running out of steam for me then, the Millennium series became available, again, reigniting my love for the sillier side of Godzilla and on and on it goes. As soon as I think I've moved past my love for Godzilla, something new comes out (and usually pretty different) that reignites it once again.

I have to admit, while I really liked G'14, it is also a severely mixed bag of a film that only just manages to "good" and not "great". Shin Godzilla was a chance for Toho to show the world what a "great" Godzilla film is. I purposely avoided as many spoilers as possible and just stuck to watching the "main trailers" and nothing else (especially the Malaysian one which I heard showed far too much). So color me pretty surprised when they took Godzilla to some pretty bizarre places.

On the one hand, I love that Toho was okay with letting Anno play with his origins and characterization a bit. This allowed us to see some things from the Big G that we've never seen before. I love that Godzilla is an evolving creature that has the potential to literally wipe the Earth of all civilization. This is by far the most nightmarish and terrifying portrayal of Godzilla. Godzilla's night attack of Tokyo is by far the highlight of the film. The moment Yaguchi sees Godzilla outside of his car, that literally sent chills down my neck. I had heard rumors that Godzilla atomic breath would be very overpowered, and they were right. Godzilla's ray is silly OP and actually made my theater both gasp and laugh at the same time. I can't imagine Godzilla fighting another creature with it, without annihilating them immediate and more impressively than was seen in GMK. Makes me hope and think that if Toho does make another G film it won't be connected to this one.

I really dug the human story behind Shin Godzilla. While I keep seeing many critics refer to the human story as very traditional for a kaiju film, I did not. It is most definitely a darkly humorous critique of government bureaucracy. I think a friend of mind said it best describing Shin Godzilla as "Veep vs Godzilla". My theater would often erupt in laughter as orders were passed through five different people to the Prime Minister only to be carried back down the chain. I especially liked the sequence at the beginning as the Prime Minister moves from conference room to office, to conference room, to press room doing very little, all the while proto-Zilla (who looks rather humorous on his own) destroys buildings and various parts of Tokyo. However, the pacing could definitely use some work. There were times when the revolving door of people with titles flashing up on the screen just became a bit much and I was ready for Godzilla to strike again. Pacing was especially bad after Godzilla's night raid on Tokyo. As much as I like watching how Yaguchi and Patterson was able to use political maneuvering to delay the nuking of Tokyo, it could've used some serious editing (and Satomi Ishihara could definitely use some more English lessons). Just like G'14, I'll find myself tempted to fast-forward the human scenes to get to the good stuff.

While I still think Toho has a long way to go for the CGI, Shin Godzilla definitely proves that they're trying and sometimes succeeding in rivaling their Hollywood counterpart. While some of the CG was certainly atrocious, I definitely can see the benefits of using it and how a film this ambitious probably could not have been done using more traditional tokusatsu means. Overall, I look forward to future Godzilla films from Toho using this method as it promises a new level of realism not seen before.

In the end, if I had to pick either Shin Godzilla or Godzilla'14, I would probably pick Shin. As a film, I found what it had to say more interesting and engaging, even if it also dragged. I don't mind Anno's craziness, and I like that Shin Godzilla took risks. I hope this sort of open-mindedness and willingness to play with our expectation of Godzilla will continue as Toho moves forward with the series.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby QBASS » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:31 pm

Well I had a unique experience this morning.I went to the 10:40 am show on 42st I sat in my seat at 10:15 and was looking at my phone..as peeps were taking their seats it hit me that everything i was hearing was non english.When I finally looked up at 10:35,the theatre was full,98% Asian.I said to myself "well I always wanted to see a G movie in Japan,this is the closest I'll get" :lol: :P
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby lhb412 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:19 pm

msweets13 wrote:The moment Yaguchi sees Godzilla outside of his car, that literally sent chills down my neck.


That was a nice, chilling kind of moment. I live in a tornado prone area, and it recalled memories from childhood when I'd see my parents out the window looking in the distance to catch site of the beginnings of rotation in the sky. I remember them as very quite moments, though I suppose sirens were blaring at the time.

Nice review, btw!

QBASS wrote:Well I had a unique experience this morning.I went to the 10:40 am show on 42st I sat in my seat at 10:15 and was looking at my phone..as peeps were taking their seats it hit me that everything i was hearing was non english.When I finally looked up at 10:35,the theatre was full,98% Asian.I said to myself "well I always wanted to see a G movie in Japan,this is the closest I'll get" :lol: :P


Cool! There were a couple of Japanese folks at my last screening. I know I saw an old couple and a group of student-age guys... I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the old couple came more for Godzilla and the young guys were probably more excited about Anno.
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Re: Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:50 am

The reviews on FB are a lot more mixed than here. I'll be interested to see how people view Shin a few years from now. G14 was ok in my book, but nothing overly special. Shin sucked.

I'm now looking forward to the anime (and Skull Island, since that sets up Godzilla 2 or Godzilla vs King Kong).
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