Shin Godzilla review thread (Spoilers! Duh...)

[Moonlight SY-3]

Glad to see it's got an 87% positive rating here so far!
Seems like they were not able to finish the CGI they wanted to before the overseas release, but I'm glad to hear most folks aren't going too crazy about it. Hopefully they'll be able to do that before the Blu-ray release.
So, is the screen pretty full of English subtitles all the time, as I suspected it would be with such dense dialogue? Are all the Japanese subtitles still there? Very curious how they were going to handle all that.

Anyway, very happy to see it's getting mostly positive reviews over there. I saw it four times here, and loved it more each time!

[GFan]

Some of my thoughts after sleeping on it:

I walked out of the theater loving it and I still do, can't wait to see it again (hopefully tonight).

People who keep saying this isn't your traditional Godzilla movie are flat out WRONG. This was an amazingly traditional Godzilla movie presented with a modern flair and a wildly modern, heavily anime-inspired take on the monster himself. And I'm honestly a bit surprised I liked it so much b/c I generally dislike anime, but I loved this take on Godzilla!

But getting back to it being a VERY traditional Godzilla movie...

-Godzilla appeared unexpectedly out of the ground/ocean much like his reveals in MvsG '64, KKvsG, GvsMG (popping out of the warehouse)

-He goes on a rampage while the government argues and debates over how to handle him (see G'54, Mothra vs Godzilla, G'84, etc.)

-a plucky group of nerds, fed up with the government bureaucracy and infighting, sets out on their on to find a solution (see... I dunno almost every Godzilla movie?)

-the military has a (freaking epic!) battle with Godzilla and fails utterly (again, too many G movies to list)

-the plan put in place to stop Godzilla is crazy bonkers pseudo-science and rather unbelievable/logistically impossible (see: filling rivers with gasoline and lighting them on fire to direct Godzilla into a GIANT tiger trap, luring G to giant tesla coils and dropping metal nets in order to electrocute him, carrying Kong with balloons and helicopters, creating thunderstorms and a giant grid of electric foot pads... The list goes on and on).

So yeah, at every turn, I was constantly being reminded of classic films as I watched this movie, which was great. But at the same time, the presentation was so new and engaging, and Godzilla himself was so wild, that it all felt very fresh and new and fun!

The movie felt like Japan itself. Incredibly traditional and incredibly modern all at the same time and somehow, almost magically finding a balance to it all despite the direct conflict presented by such a concept.

This sums up my own thoughts perfectly!

[canofhumdingers]

Saw it again tonight and it solidified my previous opinion.

Noticed more things hardening back to classic G films...

-Goro Maki, the name has been used in more than one film

-Goro Maki - the mysterious, disgraced professor reminiscent of Mafune from TOMG

And there was something else that I just can't remember right now.

Also, what the heck was up with the second wave of train bombs magically floating/flying up to and impacting/sticking to Godzilla as they exploded?

[lhb412]

So, is the screen pretty full of English subtitles all the time, as I suspected it would be with such dense dialogue? Are all the Japanese subtitles still there? Very curious how they were going to handle all that.

Japanese subtitles still onscreen. Wonder if they'll give Funimation a 'clean' print without optical titles so they can do purely English text for the English language version?

[Moonlight SY-3]

So, is the screen pretty full of English subtitles all the time, as I suspected it would be with such dense dialogue? Are all the Japanese subtitles still there? Very curious how they were going to handle all that.

Japanese subtitles still onscreen. Wonder if they'll give Funimation a 'clean' print without optical titles so they can do purely English text for the English language version?

Thanks for the answer. A clean print to work with would be ideal, to keep the screen from getting too cluttered!

[Moonlight SY-3]

Also, what the heck was up with the second wave of train bombs magically floating/flying up to and impacting/sticking to Godzilla as they exploded?

Could be one of the unfinished CGI sequences, with super-funky physics, or it may simply be something Anno thought would look cool. I thought it looked silly. On the other hand, my six-year-old son loved it. He can do a pretty convincing rendition of it with his Pla-Rail collection!

[Dr Kain]

Seems like they were not able to finish the CGI they wanted to before the overseas release,

I'm sorry, but what? If they released the movie with unfinished effects than that is total laziness on Toho's part, like Heisei levels of laziness, if not worse. WTF is wrong with them?!

Saw it again tonight and it solidified my previous opinion.

Noticed more things hardening back to classic G films...

-Goro Maki, the name has been used in more than one film

-Goro Maki - the mysterious, disgraced professor reminiscent of Mafune from TOMG

And there was something else that I just can't remember right now.

Also, what the heck was up with the second wave of train bombs magically floating/flying up to and impacting/sticking to Godzilla as they exploded?

Goro Maki was the name of the characters in Son of Godzilla and Godzilla 84.

Were you thinking about Takarada's cameo in this? Or that one of the government dudes was from Kamen Rider Ryuki and Gamera the Brave?

There was also the music usage from the original, Gigan, and a few others. Also, the node to Odo Island.

As for your train question, they were getting revenge for all of the years Godzilla spent attacking them.

[lhb412]

Seems like they were not able to finish the CGI they wanted to before the overseas release,

I'm sorry, but what? If they released the movie with unfinished effects than that is total laziness on Toho's part, like Heisei levels of laziness, if not worse. WTF is wrong with them?!

It was a down-to-the-wire thing: they were working on completing the digital effects right up to the time of release, and a few shots don't look finished. Remember that they ended up with a far bigger digital workload than they thought they would because the practical Godzilla prop was unsatisfactory.

[Psycho Soldier]

I liked the movie. I'd probably give it a grade between 75% and 79% inclusive. The humour landed, the Godzilla scenes landed, the music landed. My biggest issues were with the sometimes poor visual effects and the pacing during the third act. I also would've preferred a completely modern sound design, rather than the filmmakers' resorting to classic music and effects, but I enjoyed the old-school approach anyway. I liked the brief throwbacks to the 1954 film, particularly a shot that evokes Godzilla's first landing in Tokyo, when we see the adolescent Godzilla near a rail yard (or at least something like one). I also kind of liked Godzilla's surprise (re)appearances -- you never quite know when he'll turn up or act next -- but combined with the rather sluggish pacing at times, they could become a little annoying. I'd dread to show this film to people who complain about his screen time in G2014.

Based on first impressions, I'd rank this somewhere within the better half of the franchise. I'm seeing it again next Wednesday, so we'll see how my opinion holds. I know I like it more than, say, Return of Godzilla. I haven't figured out if I like it more than Final Wars. I suspect my next viewing will consist of me trying to form an opinion there. I also have to admit I'm looking forward to the English dub. Not something I normally say about a Godzilla movie, but at least then I can read all the subtitles.

[jellydonut25]

I've now seen it a second time and solidified my own opinions on it a little more.

The first half is mostly enjoyable, if a tad stupid (specifically - and this holds true throughout the movie - any scene with Kayoko, though filled with good energy from her bubbly personality, is nearly incoherent and full of horrendous writing), and everything up until the nap, I'd give about a 3.5 out of 5 with most of the points taken off for bad effects and sloppy writing and editing (and, personal taste here: the subtitling of everything, including the same hallway three times. I get it. It's the fifth floor hallway. Hurray.)

The second half, however...might be the biggest sh**box in any Godzilla film, period. I'm honestly not sure there's a single thing in it I legitimately enjoy, just a few things that give me unintentional chuckles, like "He must have phased radar...exactly as I suspected" and the horrible English dialogue, and the guy who wears the pink towel around his neck whose sole purpose in the movie is to do nothing until there's an impasse and then say a random word, which then goes on to explain something important. The writing becomes incoherent, the dialogue becomes full of non-sequiturs about the economy and joint coalitions, the science is flimsy (at best), the action grinds to a halt, it defaults to telling rather than showing, and rather than show or deal with any fallout (both literally and figuratively) of Godzilla's initial appearance and second rampage, we get back to pressed suits, squeaky clean board rooms, and discussions of rising in the political ranks. All of that would be (and is) bad enough on its own, but the ending, and the extent to which this is the single most resounding, no-qualifications defeat of Godzilla in any film ever and the implications of that victory and what it does for our characters and the country of Japan is essentially against the message of literally every other Godzilla movie in history. There's definitely an implication that at the very least, this movie's finale leads us to a place that is 100% the opposite of the message of Tezuka's Mechagodzilla films. I can draw at least three parallels on a thematic and storytelling level to the 1998 film that hit a core of the issue in both films and that's a huge problem...not "because it's not Godzilla" but because it's a crap movie at this point. The second half of this movie gets a 0.5 out of 5.

Overall, that's a 2/5...and I'm tempted to go 1.5 just because of how awful a taste this thing leaves in my mouth and how impossible it is to get through the second half without taking a break from its bulls*** for a minute or two. I'll keep it at a 2/5 though because the first hour DOES entertain (even though I noticed a flaw in the night time rampage this time that pissed me off, but it only lasts for a split second or two, so it's not like a catastrophe or anything).

[angilas]

Saw it again tonight and it solidified my previous opinion.

Noticed more things hardening back to classic G films...

-Goro Maki, the name has been used in more than one film

-Goro Maki - the mysterious, disgraced professor reminiscent of Mafune from TOMG

And there was something else that I just can't remember right now.

Also, what the heck was up with the second wave of train bombs magically floating/flying up to and impacting/sticking to Godzilla as they exploded?

"Maki Goro's the name" from the theatrical dub of Sog- one of the few name introductions that stand out to me in the series. I thought I was crazy since SoG is far from a major G film.

The Red Sea at the beginning was reminiscent of Birth Island's destruction in GvDestroyah, Godzillas appearance under the blue Cherenkov light in KKvsG and his disappearance in a bloody sea vs MechaGodzilla in 74, to me anyway. Some nods to GMK in the dam stomping and tunnel collapse which isn't shocking since Higuchi's understudy did the SFX on that when Kaneko couldn't get him again.

The trains revenge reminiscent of the original train destruction (I guess somehow the speed was enough for them to fly off the track on impact, with then hitting him from several angles but I'm really not sure).

The super heat when charging his beam reminded me of G2K with that nuclear pulse 2.0 or whatever that was that killed Orga. The beam color was a nod to everything from G2K where it's orange to the original where it's white. The pin point accuracy was reminiscent of GMK and GFW, and the spike beams of the nuclear pulse in GvB, GvKG and GvM92.
The threat of nuking him G85.
Him slinking around in form 1 was kind of original Mothra'ish with the transformation being Battra, Hedorah, Destroya-ish.
The biological studies were G85/2kish. The cell wars between countries was GvBish. That final plan was definitely like something out of films 3, 4 and 6. Godzilla freezing was like GvD and GxMG.

Oh and Maki Goro's image looked to be Kihachi Okamoto- a legendary film director known for black comedy and war movies who seems to have inspired hideki anni to a degree before his death in 2005

[Moonlight SY-3]

Seems like they were not able to finish the CGI they wanted to before the overseas release,

I'm sorry, but what? If they released the movie with unfinished effects than that is total laziness on Toho's part, like Heisei levels of laziness, if not worse. WTF is wrong with them?!

Not laziness at all. I went into this in some detail in one of these threads somewhere...not sure which one anymore. Probably the old "Spoilers" thread.

This all comes to me from a buddy who has worked in the sfx industry for decades here in Japan, and has friends who worked on Shin-G. As we've heard rumored elsewhere, they intended to do the whole puppet thing with Shin-G, built one, and starting shooting with it. Anno didn't like it, and decided to bin the puppet and do it all in CG. This was apparently pretty late in the game. So, it was a race against the clock and the budget to get it done. According to my buddy, the sfx crews worked their asses off to get it all done, and the best it could be done with the time and budget they had left to work with. As we've seen, they didn't finish several of the CG shots. They're certainly not happy with it, and were hoping to have had the opportunity to finish those shots before the overseas releases, or at the very least, before it gets released on Blu-ray for eternal scrutinization. My buddy says he has great respect for these guys who worked on the film, and thinks they did a damned good job considering all the stress they were put under by Anno's decision to dump the puppet.

So, laziness? Hell no. These people did their best with the time and resources they had. Hastiness on the part of Toho management to get the movie out on schedule? Maybe.

Anyway, since they weren't given the opportunity to finish the scenes for the overseas releases, I am doubting even more they will get to do that before the Blu-ray release. By the way, none of what I am writing here is official Toho info, it's just what I am hearing from the people who worked directly on the film...the people who worked on the sfx and take pride in their work, and would at least like to see a finished product be shown.

[O.Supreme]

Saw it last night. I was going in with incredibly low expectations, but I think watching as many other reviews and videos online did help. I’m not one to ever be spoiled by anything, to me, the research helps. But despite the positive reviews, I did not plan on liking this film simply because I am not a fan of the director. I think NGE is completely overrated (though to be fair I think it’s the fandom that makes it so more than the media itself), and I’m not a fan of Attack on Titan.

All that being said…after one viewing, I can say it’s a solid mid-level Godzilla film. It’s hard to say this early on after repeated viewings whether it will rise or fall in my ranking, but I found it instantly more enjoyable than most of the millennium films, as an example. I don’t plan on seeing it in the theater again, but am glad I did. I think this is one that definitely benefits from the BIG SCREEN format (along with the original, 1985, and the two from Hollywood) If I were to watch this fist at home on BRD, I probably would have fallen asleep due to its dialogue heavy nature. BTW…I wonder if someone will ever tally a word count. For a two-hour film, I bet this one either sets, or has to come close to the record for most words spoken. Godzilla itself was ok, in all its forms. Though I found reports from many viewers to either be somewhat erroneous, or I am wondering if the version we are getting is *edited*? I only saw “Kaiju A” spill blood from his gills on one occasion (as opposed to the *many/often* times reported by others). The Military did not actually attack Godzilla until its final form (reports I read and videos I saw said that the military took action on Godzilla in all its forms??) Also the final freezing of Godzilla I was made to understand took place in the ocean? ; Which was not the case. If it had been, there would be much less desire for a sequel.

Speaking of which…I am torn. I really don’t want to see a sequel/series based on this Godzilla. I think it was fine for a “one-off” (Like GMK) but I think a whole series based on this rendition would get depressing really quick. Still however it is left very opened ended, almost demanding a sequel. My friend I saw it with theorized *if* another film came about, Godzilla could further mutate to make itself more mobile, which I agree with. However…given its apparent “immortality” how do you even design another kaiju to fight it? (Other than a Mechagodzilla…which we don’t need again for a very long time)Even though Godzilla isn’t always the protagonist in his films, I can’t see another monster in this universe filling that role. The last film I saw where two monsters fought, and neither was a clear protagonist was Yonggary (1999) aka “Reptilian”, make of that what you will.

So overall, yes I enjoyed it. Time will only tell however where it falls with the other 30 films. I’m curious to see this weekend if it even shows up as a blip on Boxoffice Mojo. Still as I was sitting in the theater last night before the film started I was thinking…how cool is this? The film was just released 10 weeks ago in Japan, and now I can sit in a theater less than 10 miles from my home and watch it. Both 1985 and 2000 took about 8 months to reach US theaters, obviously because of dubbing (new footage in the case of 1985, and heavy re-editing of both) , but 10 weeks, that has to be a record for Godzilla. If more films are to be made, I hope it’s a trend that continues.

[Dr Kain]

Seems like they were not able to finish the CGI they wanted to before the overseas release,

I'm sorry, but what? If they released the movie with unfinished effects than that is total laziness on Toho's part, like Heisei levels of laziness, if not worse. WTF is wrong with them?!

It was a down-to-the-wire thing: they were working on completing the digital effects right up to the time of release, and a few shots don't look finished. Remember that they ended up with a far bigger digital workload than they thought they would because the practical Godzilla prop was unsatisfactory.

How can I remember something I never knew?

Nevertheless, laziness is laziness. Next time they should just stick to actual suits and wire work since that is what they are good at. They don't have the ability, knowhow, time, effort, or budget to do CGI monsters. And if there was an issue with the actual suit, then maybe they shouldn't make a Godzilla that looked like an abortion gone wrong.

[Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!]

Nevertheless,[b][b] laziness is laziness[/b][/b]. Next time they should just stick to actual suits and wire work since that is what they are good at. They don't have the ability, knowhow, time, [b]effort[/b], or budget to do CGI monsters. And if there was an issue with the actual suit, then maybe they shouldn't make a Godzilla that looked like an abortion gone wrong.

I'm mostly speechless. All I got is a good ""OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" off"

[lhb412]

^Yeah, films are frequently not complete because they're 'finished,' but because it's time for release. I think, considering the troubled side of production we heard about, it's something of a miracle (i.e. folks but in a lot of long hours) the film looks this good.

[XvGojira]

laziness is laziness.

Lazy

la·zy
/ˈlāzē/

adjective

1 a : disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous
b : encouraging inactivity or indolence

Laziness would be if they had double the amount of money and time and still ended up with those shots looking as they do.

The CGI crew didn't get more time, and even if they were given the left over budget of the unfilmed puppet shots, that's still asking them to do more work in less time. With how successful this movie is in Japan, it would be great if Toho allowed them to "finish up" those shots for the home video release, although I'm kind of doubting it.

But the one thing they were not was lazy.

[DannyBeane]

Yeah its not laziness. Changing release dates involves breaking a lot of contracts for theaters, merchandising, advertising, investors etc. You don't break a release date unless something has gone catastrophically wrong or you're more than a few years out from the release date and not yet in production.

[canofhumdingers]

The effects crew certainly wasn't lazy, but perhaps the executives were; just sticking with the set schedule knowing full well it was putting the crew under a huge crunch...

Anyway, I remembered the last point I wanted to make about it being such a traditional G movie in a fancy modern wrapper:

The message of the film. It is SO much a 1960's Honda style message of human goodness in the face of insurmountable odds. The people criticizing this movie for being very jingoistic, nationalistic, and pro military are totally missing the point. This film is about a group of low level government employees. Average people. Who come together despite the red tape and artificial bureaucratic walls in their way. They work hand in hand, playing on each other's strengths, and come up with a distinctly NON militaristic solution to save the world. They don't even plan to kill the monster!

And then they actually use the cooperation of the government and the military (a MULTINATIONAL FORCE, mind you) to implement the logistics of the plan because they are the only organizations with the manpower and structure in place to actually Have any chance of successfully executing said plan.

It's about humanity bringing out the best of itself in all its iterations and organizations to save the world, INSPITE of all the problems we create for ourselves.

It's the answer to Goro Maki's challenge "do as you like"... Be either as good, or as awful as humanity can be. It's your choice. Thankfully the protagonists chose wisely.


And yes, I know there's all the obsessive fetishness over the military hardware, all the politics within Japan, and between Japan, the US, and the rest of the world. But those weren't the CORE message of the movie. The military hardware just came across as nerds who love awesome tech relishing in it. And, let's face it, the military has some of the most awesome tech. But it didn't come across as specifically pro-war in any way. And all the political stuff just came across as relevant commentary and satire on the current political state the Japanese find themselves in. Again, I didn't see anything explicitly nationalistic about it. Just a Japanese film referencing current Japanese conditions and problems. Sure there's the line from one character, as he admires the tireless and selfless work ethic of his peers, about the country being alright; but it's in reference to the humanitarian efforts and teamwork of all the "misfits and outcasts" doing whatever it took to save others by stopping Godzilla.

[Dr Kain]

Then the movie should have been pushed back until the effects were finished.

Sorry, but I'm tired of these companies that will rush out a half finished product to the first market and then finish it when it comes out to video. Toho's not the only one who has been doing this approach. WB's been doing it with their DC movies, Toei's been doing it with their anime seies, Ubisoft, WB, and Bethesda have been doing it with their video games. Hell, even Hasbro did it last year with their Force Awakens toyline. What happened to ethics in the work place? What happened to releasing quality products the first time?

Perhaps it wasn't laziness on the production team, but it surely was for somebody. I'm not going to give them a pass just because they couldn't finish the effects. The effects look like crap in this movie, and it is just going to have to adhere to it.

[kiryugoji04]

Big companies make release dates, not movies.

[Dr Kain]

Big companies make release dates, not movies.

Then they have no right to complain when people don't like their movie or something in their movie.

[kiryugoji04]

Oh, by the way, I LOVED the movie. I love this series for how wildly varied the stories it has presented us can be and I love that some movies can be pulpy fun while others can actually find something really interesting to say about the world. Shin Godzilla really delivered in the latter regard.

[MekaGojira3k]

Oh, by the way, I LOVED the movie. I love this series for how wildly varied the stories it has presented us can be and I love that some movies can be pulpy fun while others can actually find something really interesting to say about the world. Shin Godzilla really delivered in the latter regard.

The variety of the series is its greatest strength. I'm so glad we can add this to the canon and I'm hoping we get something equally interesting out of the animated film.

[Dr Kain]

Summarizing what I said in my review on the last page:

+ Music
+ Gorgeous cinematography
+ Godzilla's breath attack/abilities
+ Japan is not in a bubble as this effects the entire world and we get to see or hear about the involvement with other countries
+ No one knows how to handle a monster attack
+ Hilarious comedic moments

- Godzilla looks like he came out of a PS4 game
- Too many characters with no main protagonist
- Could have been 20-30 minutes shorter
- Some scenes could have been extended to let them develop while others be removed entirely
- The English for the girl was down right dreadful
- A Trump-ish president
- Too many subtitles on screen (mad props to the guy at Funimation who had to sub this movie)

There might seem to be more negatives than positives, but I give the movie an 8/10. Although, that could change over repeated viewings as I feel like I need to watch this movie 6 more times before I can truly make a definitive decision. However, you need to look at this as an Anno movie rather than a traditional Godzilla one. As such, expect nonsense dialog, lots of close up shots of people, black screens with text, and politics.