No More Godzilla or Kaiju Films from Japan?

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Postby Legion » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:40 pm

kpa wrote:
Some fans have been calling the Legendary project "GODZILLA 2012" but the actual press release from March 2010 only states that the film was intended for a 2012 release. The studio was clearly being tentative about the release but some fans are treating it like it was a definitive statement, and that's their mistake.


I'm certain these are the same people who totally believe that Shogo Tomiyama promised everyone a new Japanese Godzilla movie by 2014.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:48 pm

Legion wrote:
kpa wrote:
Some fans have been calling the Legendary project "GODZILLA 2012" but the actual press release from March 2010 only states that the film was intended for a 2012 release. The studio was clearly being tentative about the release but some fans are treating it like it was a definitive statement, and that's their mistake.


I'm certain these are the same people who totally believe that Shogo Tomiyama promised everyone a new Japanese Godzilla movie by 2014.



WAT!? I thought we were supposed to get Toho's Godzilla X Bagan: Otaku no Gyakushu in 2014!
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Postby kpa » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:38 pm

Legion wrote:
kpa wrote:
Some fans have been calling the Legendary project "GODZILLA 2012" but the actual press release from March 2010 only states that the film was intended for a 2012 release. The studio was clearly being tentative about the release but some fans are treating it like it was a definitive statement, and that's their mistake.


I'm certain these are the same people who totally believe that Shogo Tomiyama promised everyone a new Japanese Godzilla movie by 2014.


That's a good example... what was actually stated is often very different from what some people think they heard or read. Considering TriStar first planned their GODZILLA for 1994 and it didn't come out until 1998, people should take tentative early studio statements as intended rather than as something definitive and concrete.

And I'm in agreement with you about daikaiju films from Japan. Toho, Kadokawa, nor any of the other major Japanese studios had plans for any such films in the near future, so the recent disasters won't impact movies that weren't being made in the first place.
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Postby Legion » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:57 pm

Well we're getting another Ultra Galaxy film later this year...but those aren't really "giant monster" movies now, are they?
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Postby Godzilla 2000 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:30 am

Legion wrote:Well we're getting another Ultra Galaxy film later this year...but those aren't really "giant monster" movies now, are they?


Not anymore, they're not.

Seriously, I'd take another Super 8 Ultra Bros-type movie than another "Ultraman Zero-interest and the Ultra-rangers" any day.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:43 am

Godzilla 2000 wrote:
Legion wrote:Well we're getting another Ultra Galaxy film later this year...but those aren't really "giant monster" movies now, are they?


Not anymore, they're not.

Seriously, I'd take another Super 8 Ultra Bros-type movie than another "Ultraman Zero-interest and the Ultra-rangers" any day.


So what if Ultraman Zero the movie doesn't have "proper" monsters in it? It's ONE MOVIE that's following on the heels of a movie that stuffed over fifty monsters into its runtime and contained within a series that's been doing alien-centric plots for YEARS without ruining itself. Besides, if the giant robots don't count as monsters, where does that leave Mechagodzilla?

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Postby ryuuseipro » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:07 am

kiryugoji04 wrote:
Godzilla 2000 wrote:
Legion wrote:Well we're getting another Ultra Galaxy film later this year...but those aren't really "giant monster" movies now, are they?


Not anymore, they're not.

Seriously, I'd take another Super 8 Ultra Bros-type movie than another "Ultraman Zero-interest and the Ultra-rangers" any day.


So what if Ultraman Zero the movie doesn't have "proper" monsters in it? It's ONE MOVIE that's following on the heels of a movie that stuffed over fifty monsters into its runtime and contained within a series that's been doing alien-centric plots for YEARS without ruining itself. Besides, if the giant robots don't count as monsters, where does that leave Mechagodzilla?

:kitty:


He's right, guys...

There are too many people who believe that Godzilla is the end-all-be-all of Japanese giant monsters, and that if he ends, the genre must end. Which is the most asinine way of thinking, considering other giant monster films and shows produced after 2004.
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Postby Legion » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:23 am

ryuuseipro wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:
Godzilla 2000 wrote:
Legion wrote:Well we're getting another Ultra Galaxy film later this year...but those aren't really "giant monster" movies now, are they?


Not anymore, they're not.

Seriously, I'd take another Super 8 Ultra Bros-type movie than another "Ultraman Zero-interest and the Ultra-rangers" any day.


So what if Ultraman Zero the movie doesn't have "proper" monsters in it? It's ONE MOVIE that's following on the heels of a movie that stuffed over fifty monsters into its runtime and contained within a series that's been doing alien-centric plots for YEARS without ruining itself. Besides, if the giant robots don't count as monsters, where does that leave Mechagodzilla?

:kitty:


He's right, guys...

There are too many people who believe that Godzilla is the end-all-be-all of Japanese giant monsters, and that if he ends, the genre must end. Which is the most asinine way of thinking, considering other giant monster films and shows produced after 2004.


However, lets remember that while Tsuburaya (to cite one example) does keep churning out new Ultra shows and movies, straight giant monster films haven't been doing well in Japan. And they haven't been for years. Final Wars, Monster X, Gamera the Brave, even Cloverfield and Kong...none of them have been all that successful.
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Postby Jinzo Ningen » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:58 am

The 3 Japanese films examples you listed were weak and lame for the most part, and so would likely have crapped out regardless. I'd say that maybe the people are just tired of giant monsters, but Ultraman and the Sentai series continue to thrive, so that theory doesn't wash. As others have said, why pay to see stuff when it's on TV for free? Until a really GOOD film is made I honestly don't see the genre getting a kickstart. Perhaps Pacific Rim & Godzilla 2013 will change that? It will be interesting to see what happens. It's certainly about time for another Golden Age of daikaiju ega to come along.
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Postby Thomas » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:15 pm

Gamera the Brave is neither weak nor lame.
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Postby Jinzo Ningen » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:53 pm

Thomas wrote:Gamera the Brave is neither weak nor lame.


Compared to Super Monster Gamera, no. Compared to the Heisei trilogy, box office revenue, critical & fan response... yes. It was OK, but too much was merely "meh" that should have been "Cool! Whoa!" The badguy monster and battle was alright, but when viewed against "Legion" then a big no - from my perspective at least.
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Postby ryuuseipro » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:46 pm

Legion wrote:
ryuuseipro wrote:There are too many people who believe that Godzilla is the end-all-be-all of Japanese giant monsters, and that if he ends, the genre must end. Which is the most asinine way of thinking, considering other giant monster films and shows produced after 2004.


However, lets remember that while Tsuburaya (to cite one example) does keep churning out new Ultra shows and movies, straight giant monster films haven't been doing well in Japan. And they haven't been for years. Final Wars, Monster X, Gamera the Brave, even Cloverfield and Kong...none of them have been all that successful.


Pretty much.

There are ways to make monsters relevant again, but something in the manner of Godzilla? I dunno. In Japan, Gomora was making much more impact in the newer Ultra Series on TV and video (and film, up to a point) than any of the "straight" monsters these days.
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Postby kpa » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:11 pm

Jinzo Ningen wrote:The 3 Japanese films examples you listed were weak and lame for the most part, and so would likely have crapped out regardless. I'd say that maybe the people are just tired of giant monsters, but Ultraman and the Sentai series continue to thrive, so that theory doesn't wash.


That theory does wash, and it's one that studios like Toho and Kadokawa very much believe in. They haven't been making gaint monster movies lately because the genre has underperformed at the Japanese box office for the past several years.

Over the past 15 years there's been one truly successful Japanese monster movie (GMK), one the performed well (GxMG), some that did moderate business, and several box office flops. The Japanese studios have had MUCH more success with other types of sci-fi/FX movies so that's what they're making these days.

Toho, etc are well aware that foreign monster movies haven't done well in Japan either. The 2005 KING KONG was the most successful, but was still not a big hit in Japan. CLOVERFIELD did not do very well, and movies like THE HOST and D-WAR which did well elsewhere bombed in Japan.

Ultraman, Kamen Rider, Sentai etc are TV franchises that are supported by year-round promotional campaigns with movies being a part of that. Their success isn't dependent on the films doing well at the box office the same way Godzilla and Gamera are. Tsuburaya and the other companies realize this and make the movies cheaply to more easily make a profit; the main goals of the films is to further drive licensing. SUPERIOR ULTRAMAN 8 BROTHERS was TPC's biggest box office success and it earned around $8 million... that's less than Toho spends to make a Godzilla movie, so those numbers would be abysmal for Toho.
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Postby ebirahsmeg1 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:08 pm

Jinzo Ningen wrote:The 3 Japanese films examples you listed were weak and lame for the most part, and so would likely have crapped out regardless. I'd say that maybe the people are just tired of giant monsters, but Ultraman and the Sentai series continue to thrive, so that theory doesn't wash. As others have said, why pay to see stuff when it's on TV for free? Until a really GOOD film is made I honestly don't see the genre getting a kickstart.


Sorry, but the 3 Japanese films you mentioned could have been the second coming of Gamera 3, GMK, or "the greatest kaiju film of all time," and it wouldn't have made much difference....the kaiju eiga genre has ran out of steam in Japan, similar to the late 70s. Perhaps interest in this genre will grow down the road, but currently it's as dead as a doornail...
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Postby Cookie » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:11 am

I think, overall, the Japanese want quality films like GMK and the Gamera Trilogy... a more "serious" look on the genre with great SPX like these films had. GXMG and Tokyo SOS are good quality film too(just imo).

I just think this is what the Japanese want now. They're tired to low budget looking Kaiju films in this day and age. Ultraman does good because the budget for those films are soooo small. A box office flop Godzilla movie makes just a much money as a box office success Ultraman movie. Really.. I don't even know what I'm talking about now... just trying to say that the Japanese want good looking SFX Kaiju films. That still doesn't guarantee success though.
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Postby walshiam » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:48 am

If the studios would pull their heads out of their butts, two titles come to mind that would change things in a hurry "KING KONG VS. GODZILLA: THE REMATCH" and "GODZILLA VS. GAMERA: THE BATTLE FOR JAPAN".
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Postby ebirahsmeg1 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:58 am

Cookson wrote:I think, overall, the Japanese want quality films like GMK and the Gamera Trilogy... a more "serious" look on the genre with great SPX like these films had. GXMG and Tokyo SOS are good quality film too(just imo).

I just think this is what the Japanese want now. They're tired to low budget looking Kaiju films in this day and age. Ultraman does good because the budget for those films are soooo small. A box office flop Godzilla movie makes just a much money as a box office success Ultraman movie. Really.. I don't even know what I'm talking about now... just trying to say that the Japanese want good looking SFX Kaiju films. That still doesn't guarantee success though.


walshiam wrote:If the studios would pull their heads out of their butts, two titles come to mind that would change things in a hurry "KING KONG VS. GODZILLA: THE REMATCH" and "GODZILLA VS. GAMERA: THE BATTLE FOR JAPAN".


Once again, I think you guys are missing the point and being a little naive. I don't think "If only they made more good daikaiju films like Gamera 3, Japanese people would start wanting to see daikaiju films again!" has anything to do with downfall/lack of interest in these films. Believe me, movies like GFW or Gamera the Brave could have been the greatest kaiju films ever...and it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference...Japanese movie-goers have just lost all interest in daikaiju films, period. Simple as that.

Look, I wasn't the greatest fan of the millenium series, but the majority of those films were far superior to many of the heisei films (ie GvsMothra 92, GvsSpaceG in particular), and yet even the highly regarded GMK didn't do any where near the business that even the worst Heisei films did. Even GFW, a film some love to bash, would have done mega $$$ had it had been made during the heisei 90s series.

When I first came to Japan, I thought that this was simply a "down period" like there was in the late 70s-early 80s. But as I lived here longer and gained some insight into most Japanese people's views/feelings towards Godzilla, I have to be honest, I think it goes deeper than a just a short "down" period...I think interest in this genre may be lost for a longer time by Japanese movie-goers this time around, and may never come back. :( In fact, many Japanese kids I have encountered barely know who Godzilla and Gamera are (no, I am not joking :( :o ), but they all know Ultraman and Kaimen Rider, two franchises I despise. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it's just how I feel. I like and appreciate the older showa Ultraman films like Ultra Q, Shodai Ultraman, and Ultra-Seven (you know, when they actually shared somewhat of a connection of Godzilla films in terms of style when Tsuburaya was still working his magic), but the newer stuff after the showa shows....total garbage :puke: Today, these shows share a bigger connection with Power Rangers than they do with any true "daikaiju eiga" genre films. I am tired of them getting compared or put in the same category as daikaiju films...imo, they're totally different kinds of films).

Why the total lack of interest in Godzilla by Japanese people? Who knows, but I think the rise of the internet, portable video game systems like PSP/DS/3DS, increased capabilities and reliance on cellphones, and Japanese movie-goers' love of big budget Hollywood movies are big factors. Even in Akihabara, it's not always that easy to find daikaiju collectables, and "Otaku" these days seem far more interested in erotic Lolita-con figures, Gundum ( :kitty:) extremely lame manga comics such as One Piece(there was once a time when I thought Japanese manga comics were the most fascinating/interesting in the world...but the last 2-3 years or so, the majority of them are just junk), maid cafes and AKB48 than they are about Godzilla or daikaiju. It's not just Godzilla they have lost interest in. Other Japanese traditions such as SUMO have experienced a major downspiral in terms of interest (and this was happening even before the rise of the recent scandals and foreign wrestlers domination of the sport). Hell, even baseball, which Japan has traditionally been crazy for, didn't even air some of the recent championship games on TV! :!: :o There are just too many other digital forms of entertainment out there these days to keep people pre-occupied...so who has time for daikaiju films? Of course, all of this is just my personal opinion from oberservations I've made while living here.


Sadly, I am not sure this apathy towards daikaiju films will change anytime soon like it did in the mid 80s when interest in Godzilla was rekindled. Will a "real" American G film be the catalyst to bring Japanese movie-goers attention back to Godzilla? After this awful earthquake experience, will Japanese movie-goers once again seek daikaiju films that are far more meaningful, deeper films (ala G54) than your typical, modern-day, commercial/soul-less Ultraman/Kaimen Rider films? Who knows...only time will tell.
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Postby kidnicky » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:05 am

You don't like One Piece? Why?

And what's with holding Godzilla/showa Ultra above modern Ultra/Sentai? I mean that's really comparing apples to slightly different apples. I'm a fan of Godzilla and Ultraman,and to an extent KR and sentai,and let's face it,they are not drastically different.
This just sounds to me like “back in my day......” type of stuff.
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Postby Cookie » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:49 am

Eh, I know people didn't like the 2000 series of Godzilla films, but I much enjoyed them, and even liked GFW for what it was. I think you're right though, the Japanese just don't have interest anymore. BUT, I do feel a good looking "hollywood" looking style G film that TOHO would make, would be very successfull
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Postby Legion » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:59 am

Cookson wrote:BUT, I do feel a good looking "hollywood" looking style G film that TOHO would make, would be very successfull


Could you clarify what you mean by this?
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:51 am

I think some of these comments are absurd...and yeah, I agree that placing Godzilla above sentai, Ultraman, Kamen Rider ect. is kind of ridiculous.

I also think it's bull crap the amount of hate that the Hesei series recieves on this board. The argument that "Final Wars" would have been a hit if it came out during the Hesei era is a bullshit argument. You can't know how a film would do in a different time period, and while some of the Hesei films were pretty bad, they still gave people what they wanted back then, otherwise people wouldn't have been going to the movies. People don't just go to the movies because they want to be a stat in an argument 10 years down the road by ebirahsmeg1. People go to the movies generally because they are entertained. So yes, some of the films in the Hesei era are pretty bad, but you know what...as a whole...they did what they were supposed to do and a lot of young adults all over the world now have a Godzilla series all of their own.

I feel like I had this same argument for years about the merits of the Showa Gamera series for years before people finally started to see the showa series films in a different light.
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Postby Legion » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:02 pm

Although I don't agree with ebirahsmeg's opinion on Ultraman I do think he has a point. Films like Godzilla vs Mothra and Godzilla vs Space Godzilla still did better than ANY Millennium film (no matter how good) during a period in which Godzilla was extremely popular. I agree that certain films in the Millennium series probably would have done a hell of a lot better at the box office simply if they had been released in the early-to-mid '90s when Godzilla was practically printing money for Toho.

If Godzilla vs Mothra could have been the highest grossing Godzilla film of all time and Godzilla vs Space Godzilla could make a lot of money I doubt Final Wars would have been a bomb if it had been released in the same era. It might have still been crap but it would have made more money.
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Postby walshiam » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:02 pm

If Ebirahsmeg 1 is right, it seems logical to assume that Japan has reached a point of oversaturation of Kaiju films that they've literally "outgrown" them. In that case, the only solution to continue the genre would be to let Hollywood take over and "reintroduce" giant monsters on a much grander scale. It seems that's what's about to happen if the studios don't get cold feet due to the tragedy in Japan. Contrary to how some may feel about it, I feel there has never been a better time to do these types of films in light of the recent BP oilspill and massive earthquakes. These scenarios along with other disasters, whether it be created by man or nature, is the core of what these films are all about.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:07 pm

Modern Ultraman >>>>>>>>>>>>> 90s-00s Toho.

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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:13 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:Modern Ultraman >>>>>>>>>>>>> 90s-00s Toho.

:)


Screw it...90's Toho rocks in all of it's plushy, beam firing, modern blocky- mecha and obese Godzilla glory. I also like Modern Ultraman (The Next and after) more than I do the Showa era...so that puts me in a freaking double minority I suppose but I could care less (Also, my favorite era of Kamen Rider is the 80's..anything done by Keita Amemiya >>> than any of Kaneko's work). I like what I like. It's taken me a long time in life to get to the point where I can say I have my own unique tastes and couldn't give a F if it's the popular opinion or not.
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