What do you WANT to see in the new film.

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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:45 pm

Gojiraknight wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote: Yeah, but Godzilla is basically a superhero. He's not out to save the world, but more often than not he does it. Godzilla is most known for his monster battles. Godzilla, and the rest of his gang are just as memorable and specific as Batman and his villains. So, yeah, Godzilla doesn't need a monster to fight, per se, but I have to ask why not? Those reasons you gave? If you don't feel like the drama could be improved, then you're missing out on a ton of awesome films. Mothra vs. Godzilla, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters have tons of Monster goings-on, and in those films you still feel invested in human characters and root for them to overcome the hurtles that nature has thrown at them.

Also, the addition of another kaiju is not arbitrary at all. It's something that a lot of fans want, it's something the public might expect from a Godzilla film, and it'll probably make for a more epic spectacle.


I agree with you completely.

But...

I would argue that the drama of those films was increased tremendously because Godzilla was established in the first film as a bad guy. See what I mean? If you establish in the very first film that Godzilla is a superhero, or even an anti-hero, then I believe that takes away from his eventual "turn", so to speak.

Imagine G:TTHM if Godzilla wasn't thought of as a irredeemable bad guy for the first 4 films. Now imagine how much better Godzilla 2 (with another monster or monsters) will be if Godzilla 1 is strictly Godzilla vs. Humanity.

Also, I agree with all of you that the public wants to see giant monster vs. monster action. I do too. Which is why I think it will be that much more powerful if we have to wait for it. The public also wanted to see The Joker. But because Nolan, et. al. waited until The Dark Knight, it meant that much more then it would have in Batman Begins.

That's my two cents.

Yeah but Batman Begins had Batman facing off against Ra's, a villain. :/ So I don't understand that comparison. Godzilla all on his lonesome will feel far too similar to the 98' film. I don't feel like original film contributed to that drama. Mothra vs. Godzilla has a ton of human drama, we have human beings desperately fighting off the resurrected Godzilla, our main characters are trying to fight the evil business men who want to exploit Mothra's egg. They fail, and now, the last possible hope for stopping Godzilla is gone, unless they can convince the Infant island natives.

None of those things happened as a result of events in the 54' film. The drama of the kaiju fights is always secondary, environmental, to and for the drama of the human characters. Even the first film works this way. Most of the drama is the love triangle and Serizawa's attempts to deal with having created a weapon as devastating as the atomic bomb.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:57 pm

^^^

Then we'll agree to disagree. As I've stated early and often, I feel quite strongly that the central conflict of this series is Godzilla vs. Man and the best way to establish that from the get-go is to start with a solo film. I imagine we'll see another monster in G'12, but I think the saga, if it goes that far, will be made stronger if it starts with Godzilla on his own.

And I still feel the Batman Begins-comparison is apt because that film was a true origin story, with the narrative focused entirely around Batman/Bruce Wayne. Ra's was a means to that end. TDK, by comparison, was a fuller story and thus allowed more room for The Joker. Imagine putting a villain as "big" as the Joker into Batman Begins. It wouldn't have worked.

Now, imagine putting another monster in G'54. That also wouldn't have worked. And I'm sure we'll all agree that G'54, whether as Gojira or G:KOTM, was the perfect introduction to the character (even if they did kill him off).

The days of Godzilla as a villain are gone. It makes no since to go back and ignore the public's perception of Godzilla as an animal PROTECTING his territory. Godzilla even in the first film was a reactionary beast that attacked ONLY when provoked. Yamane even said it himself that Godzilla had no reason to appaer to the modern world had it not been for bombing. Sure there should be conflict between the military and Godzilla BUT not as the centerpiece to the story. The movie should concentrate on Godzilla's quest to survive, whether it be from man or beast. It's that simple.


I disagree. Godzilla is a highly adaptable character so the days of him being any one thing are never gone. I'm sure people felt the same way about a villain Godzilla pre-GMK, a film in which he's never been more capital "E" evil.

And yes, I want an anti-hero, quest to survive Godzilla too. But that doesn't mean he still can't be the antagonist in the story.
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Postby Benjamin Haines » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:00 pm

While this new movie is going to be a reboot, I don't think it needs to be in the sense of completely re-establishing the character from scratch. That was the kind of story the '98 film told, and I imagine Legendary will want to distinguish their picture from that one as much as possible. I can see this being a reboot along the lines of The Incredible Hulk. The audience already knows and understands who the character is, so they can relegate the retelling of the origin to the opening credits and then hit the ground running with what people want to see: Godzilla demolishing cities, laying waste to the military and fighting other monsters.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:03 pm

Benjamin Haines wrote:While this new movie is going to be a reboot, I don't think it needs to be in the sense of completely re-establishing the character from scratch. That was the kind of story the '98 film told, and I imagine Legendary will want to distinguish their picture from that one as much as possible. I can see this being a reboot along the lines of The Incredible Hulk. The audience already knows and understands who the character is, so they can relegate the retelling of the origin to the opening credits and then hit the ground running with what people want to see: Godzilla demolishing cities, laying waste to the military and fighting other monsters.


This
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Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:12 pm

While I think they won't go into laborious details on the origins of Godzilla, I don't think this will be a movie in which the universe is already familiar with Godzilla.
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Postby Bluejira » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:35 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:While I think they won't go into laborious details on the origins of Godzilla, I don't think this will be a movie in which the universe is already familiar with Godzilla.

I agree with you that the general populace will not know of his existence. Might be an interesting storyline if a couple of people at least have suspicions of his existence. Say a cryptozoologist and a retired atomic scientist that the world considers cranks. The internet has made stranger bedfellows than that.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:52 am

Bluejira wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:While I think they won't go into laborious details on the origins of Godzilla, I don't think this will be a movie in which the universe is already familiar with Godzilla.

I agree with you that the general populace will not know of his existence. Might be an interesting storyline if a couple of people at least have suspicions of his existence. Say a cryptozoologist and a retired atomic scientist that the world considers cranks. The internet has made stranger bedfellows than that.


I think the universe already knowing about Godzilla would be kind of a boring way to start the series. The whole notion of humanity going "What the hell is that?" is part of the fun. I'd rather see humanity adjust to Godzilla rather than already be adjusted.
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Postby DannyBeane » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:57 am

You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:31 am

DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.
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Postby DannyBeane » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:16 pm

Gojiraknight wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.


The thing is that it doesn't have to be a sequel it just has to be understood that Godzilla exists. It can be any attack for all I care. I mean up until 1993 did Dracula movies really need to give Dracula an origin? No. He was some evil supernatural dude that lives in a castle in Transylvania that wanted to get a change of scenery.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:06 pm

Gojiraknight wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.
meh, i'd be totally fine with a movie that is neither any sort of sequel nor a solo film...


in fact, if i had to pick one of the two, i'd pick the solo film, but it's a moot point considering the producers of the film have already said there will be multiple monsters.
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Postby Arrow » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:25 pm

Gojiraknight wrote:Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.

I'm not writing the movie or anything, nor am I saying that you couldn't make a good movie even if you referenced any of the older sequels, but if I were in charge of writing it I'd honestly want my film to stand on it's own and not have to waste precious time trying to establish this film as a sequel to an older film I'm not sure most of the audience has even seen.

I personally think Godzilla's well-known enough that the filmmakers could get away with completely severing all ties to the older Godzilla movies and still be able to succeed based on his name alone. Again, I'm no expert in these matters, but just what is there to gain at all by making this film a sequel to an older Godzilla movie? Fans are going to see the thing no matter what, and I'm guessing non-fans couldn't care about the older movies either. So why exactly should this movie anything but a stand-alone film featuring Godzilla?
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Postby king_ghidorah » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:58 pm

Gojiraknight wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.


Huh? WTF? No...god no...with a side of no
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:19 pm

DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


I like this. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a full flashback, just glimpses. Instant character development, too. A guy or gal who has had prior horrifying experiences with Godzilla would instantly have a stake in whatever Goji is up to.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:51 pm

king_ghidorah wrote:
Gojiraknight wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.


Huh? WTF? No...god no...with a side of no


To what? The vague sequel? Or people being on my side?
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Postby king_ghidorah » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Gojiraknight wrote:
king_ghidorah wrote:
Gojiraknight wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.


Huh? WTF? No...god no...with a side of no


To what? The vague sequel? Or people being on my side?


I could care less about people being on your side...I'm not part of the "Everything Gojiraknight says is wrong" band wagon...but, your idea about a vague sequel...well, that is wrong my friend.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:12 am

king_ghidorah wrote:
Gojiraknight wrote:
king_ghidorah wrote:
Gojiraknight wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Even though I'm all alone on the "Godzilla solo" idea, it does seem like more and more people on this board are becoming receptive to the idea of a sequel, albeit a vague sequel, to G'54.


Huh? WTF? No...god no...with a side of no


To what? The vague sequel? Or people being on my side?


I could care less about people being on your side...I'm not part of the "Everything Gojiraknight says is wrong" band wagon...but, your idea about a vague sequel...well, that is wrong my friend.


Well, that's you're right, but I disagree. I think it would be awesome to have this new movie be a sequel to G'54, with Godzilla returning after 50+ in remission. And it wouldn't require that much effort. For example...

You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


Thank you Danny Beane.

But, in all honesty, I really don't want to go down this road again (see any of several other threads for why).
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Postby Legion » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:18 am

I'd like to see something like this...

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Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:21 am

why is there an anal bead coming out of that panda's mouth?
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Postby Legion » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:24 am

jellydonut25 wrote:why is there an anal bead coming out of that panda's mouth?


Godzilla. Pandas. Anal beads. Do you not see? It's just so meaningful and deep.
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Postby william newell » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:44 am

Legion wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:why is there an anal bead coming out of that panda's mouth?


Godzilla. Pandas. Anal beads. Do you not see? It's just so meaningful and deep.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Brilliance! Sheer brilliance!
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Postby Destroysall » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:42 am

Legion wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:why is there an anal bead coming out of that panda's mouth?


Godzilla. Pandas. Anal beads. Do you not see? It's just so meaningful and deep.


:lmfao: That was great!
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:26 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:You know the sequence in GMK where Admiral Tachibana recounts his childhood encounter with Godzilla? I feel that is really all that is needed to cover Godzilla's origins. He is a monster. He has a radioactive signature. That is all that really needs to be understood. Monsters are beyond human understanding.


I like this. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a full flashback, just glimpses. Instant character development, too. A guy or gal who has had prior horrifying experiences with Godzilla would instantly have a stake in whatever Goji is up to.


I kind of agree with this as well. That said, the TMNT community would be like, OMG we need to see the origin story again!!!
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Postby sachiel » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:11 am

Some basic things i want to see in this movie:

1. Maser Tanks

2. Godzilla's heat ray, which can be radioactive mist/flames when used on buildings and people, but turns into a heat ray when used against
monsters or a more powerful foe. Neato....

3. Maintaing the status quo with avoiding having to go into detail with
explaining why Godzilla is attacking a city or monster. He just does. Hes a force of nature.

4. Similar imagery of destruction seen in the Japan Earthquake/Tsunami disaster

5. Threat of Radioactive contamination should be explored a bit in the
film. Done brilliantly in the Random House Marc Cerasini books.

6. Awesome special effects and awesome monster designs.


Thats pretty much all i can think of for now..... :P
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Postby Pkmatrix » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:50 am

Okay, I figure it's time for me to chime in here too. :wink: I've given this some thought and rounded it out to a few basic elements I'd like to see. I suspect some of this may be somewhat...against the grain, so to speak, but here we go!

1. Godzilla MUST be treated like a character, NOT a plot device.

This seems like a no-brainer, I know, but bear with me here. What's the most common interpretation of Godzilla? "He's a force of nature." The basic idea Toho has almost always gone with is that Goji is a walking natural disaster: uncontainable, unstoppable, and basically impossible to understand. While this has worked well in the past, let's face it: more often than not, this reduces Godzilla and co. to walking plot devices rather than actual characters, excuses to have cool action sequences and little else. IMO, this will not work as well with an American audience as it does with a Japanese audience.

If I were to describe Godzilla as a character, I'd describe him as flat and static. That's not a bad thing, mind you - there are plenty of flat/static characters that have been successful in Western cinema: James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, and the various Slasher villains are all great examples. However, even though these characters are mostly static, they make up for it by trying to round them out: Sherlock Holmes and James Bond are (after a bazillion films each) well developed characters, and even the Slashers generally are given motivation/backstory, if not actual development, for what they're doing.

Godzilla is rarely given either motivation or character development.

Let's take a second and look at the most successful Western giant monster: King Kong. What made that character so successful? Well, in part, it's because he's always been treated like a character: he has motivation, he has character development, and he has an actual character arc: Kong falls in love with Ann, and that love destroys him. It's basic, but it works. What is Godzilla's character arc? In the mind of the average American moviegoer, it's either "Godzilla shows up, destroys city, then dies/leaves", or "Monster shows up, Godzilla shows up to fight it, then leaves." Not exactly the most compelling story ever told. ^_^()

I may be beating this to a pulp, but I really just want to emphasize that I want Godzilla to be more than a walking plot device the characters must respond to (as Zilla was in the '98 film), and the best way to do that is for the writers to find an appropriate motivation and devise some sort of character arc with even a meager bit of character development. Even James Bond changes in some way by the end of each installment, especially in the newest films, so I think it's fair to let Godzilla be granted some development too.

2. Godzilla should look and act like Godzilla, but the filmmakers shouldn't be afraid to take some liberties.

By this I mean what we all expect and is probably obvious: Godzilla will be made to look more "realistic". For better or worse, it's likely to happen - and, really, I don't mind so long as the result still LOOKS like the character I know and love. I've seen plenty of fan redesigns that try to incorporate more modern dinosaurian features that don't end up a butchered job like Zilla turned out (hell, we've all see the FAR superior unused concept art for that film). Atop of that, Godzilla probably won't be lumbering: he's a dinosaur, American audiences expect some agility. This is likely to be the most energetic Godzilla we've seen since the '70s. Which, again, I'm fine with (for better or worse) so long as the result remains an unstoppable wall of destruction and radioactive fury. 8-)

However, there's one thing I don't think anyone has discussed or considered which SHOULD be: Godzilla's size.

I think we've all sort of assumed that Godzilla will be, without question, at least 50m tall. Why? While the destruction he can wreak is awesome, I've always thought the smaller monsters provided some of the more interesting scenarios and stories. What if, rather than 50m, he was as short as 35m (Kong in KKE)? Or even shorter than that, maybe as short as 10m?

I'm sure someone will scream "BLASPHEMY!", but IMO what we lose in property destruction we'll gain in some really kickass and intimate action sequences. Can you imagine how awesome it would be for a 10m (about Megatron's size in Transformers) Godzilla to shrug off a barrage of tank fire, then leap atop a tank and, partly riding it as it tries to escape, tear off the turret with his jaws so he can blast the inside with his atomic fire? I certainly can! :D

So, yeah, let me be the first (I think) to advocate for a dramatically shorter Godzilla. It'll be awesome in the end, I promise! ^_^

3. Godzilla has to fight somebody.

Really, this was the biggest mistake of they made with the Tristar film. Yes, Godzilla can work well solo (especially if he's made shorter and more energetic, but even traditional Goji is fine alone), but why would you let him be alone? Unless we're doing a straight remake of the original, there really isn't much point IMO to doing a solo film: American audiences expect Godzilla to fight somebody. Why deny them that? And let's face it: a grand finale fight between Godzilla and another kaiju will spice things up, draw in bigger audiences, and with the budget they're liable to throw at this could produce something truly spectacular. IMO, it doesn't matter who Godzilla fights, but a fight HAS to be in there somewhere.

(Though, if we get a miracle and this is successful enough to have a sequel, I vote for Goji to get a rematch against Kong in Part 2!)

Anyways, that's my 2 cents on the matter.
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