Suppose another American company/director wants to try again

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Postby king_ghidorah » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:04 pm

I agree and disagree with it however..simply don't have the time to reply in a like manner, but I'll do the best I can here...

I agree that most highly prolific film makers and industry insiders deem Godzilla un profitable right now, but as Jelly Donut said...it only takes one to turn that trend around...the example of superheroes is excellent...not too long ago you would have been laughed at for trying to bring the amount of star power and money towards comic films like we have today...

How willing is the public though for some more kaiju action? That seems to be the primary concern of the industry and the fans alike...most seem to think none and this could be true...but a succesful product isn't always one that is essential to the market place or one that fans are foaming from the mouths for...you create the excitement by the cast, crew, and talent that a film has...Star Trek is an example of something that was laughed at years ago and now has a new life thanks to some great actors and a great director.

Steven Speilberg keeps being brought up as a prolific G-Fan but many of you forget that he has also had some un kind words about Godzilla and his movies in the past...just look at the special featurettes on the Jurassic Park dvd...he might kinda like Godzilla but not enough to throw his Hollywood capital behind it (same goes for Cameron ect)...he was fond of Transformers and thusly threw his might behind that film...Godzilla simply didn't inspire him enough to want to make a new film...he didn't have a vision for it like he did for Transformers....

Honestly, how many huge G-Fans do we have in Hollywood who truly "get" the kaiju genre? I can't think of any that are outspoken and notorious for it..

I've said before that I think us American's should stay out of making anymore Godzilla films because the suits and film makers over here simply aren't eager to make it and thusly any film made over here would try to do what Godzilla 1998 did and bring Godzilla to the public instead of the movie and character speaking for themselves and drawing people in.(granted a little compromise is nessecary to make the franchise "cool" even in Japan, but again Star Trek is an example of how this can be done properly)

The only thing the west should do for Godzilla is possibly help finance a new Toho production and provide some our special effects work...but especially if Godzilla is to become a metaphor of the atomic bomb again like a lot of fans want then it would be drastically in bad taste for America to make a movie about the bad effects of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan and what that devastation is like after wards...

I sometimes fear that Godzilla is endanger of becoming the Japanese Mickey Mouse...a widely recognized symbol of a movie studio but devoid of any drawing power in the cinemas and having not been featured in any film of notice or at all in decades..

But then I remember something that the suits and assosiated film makers arent...Godzilla is every boy's dream...rockets...monsters...dinosaurs...aliens...military...Godzilla and Toho sci fi has it all...horror, sci fi, action adventure, and fantasy...Godzilla is a recipe for a blockbuster if only the stigma can be dropped...and I'm pretty sure a trailer featuring all of these things would draw just about anybody in and one good movie once they are in is all that it will take...Star Trek was infinetly dorkier and less cool and managed to draw people in

The key is the people behind any new film...Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Batman...it's been done before...re vitalizing a property just takes someone of worth who sees something in it that no one else has or something that no one has been able to show fully yet...ultimately it's up to Toho...but this is one risk that can end up being a big cash pay out for them if they play their cards right...and I think they know this and that is why they wait
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Postby Gojiraknight » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:34 pm

For the record zekend01, Ben and KPA just did what you didn't, couldn't or wouldn't do.

That's how you answer someone's question/comment/opinion. I accept your apology and I do hope you realize that it was you who let this escalate out of control.

Never once did I personally attack you. You have accussed me of being conspiratorial, inexperienced, naive, having a borderline personality disorder, being insane and that's all just from the top of my head. There was more.

Now, my feelings weren't (and aren't) hurt. But I'll be frank. If you're going to resort to personal attacks in a completely innocent discussion about Godzilla than that says more about you than me.

However you apologized and said you felt bad about what you said. Having no reason not to I'll take you at your word and accept. Thank you.

To Ben and KPA's point(s):

I don't believe now nor did I ever believe that Hollywood is some country club where everybody famous gathers together in a room to decide with what movie they're going to make. If I gave that impression I'm sorry. But on that note I challenge you to find anywhere in my post where I said that I believed Hollywood worked that way. The fact is I never said anything of the sort. That was you reading into what I was saying and coming to a false conclusion. Thus it was your error not mine.

Now, even though Hwood may not be some monolithic entity certainly you guys would agree that it is an industry that suffers from "group think". In other words, if one studio spots a trend, the others jump on it like flies on you know what. X-Men and Spider-Man made money, so now all of a sudden every studio has got to make a superhero movie.

Even though Hwood is a set of competing studios with their own agendas (obviously) as a whole it is an industry where everyone seems to follow the same drummer. Does anyone disagree with that?

So if it can be demonstrated, by comparisons to other pictures, that there is money to be made with Godzilla, then why isn't anyone trying to make it? Clearly you disagree with the comparisons I've made and the judgments I've made about them. That's fine. We'll agree to disagree. But can you deny that Hwood was lukewarm to Godzilla even before? Obviously they were because they couldn't get a director for Godzilla 1992 to save their lives.

I don't remember which one of you it was but one of you mentioned the oft-told story of Steven Spielberg talking to D&E pre-GINO. However you added the addendum, which I had never heard before, that Spielberg told D&E that an American Godzilla would never work.

Why would an American Godzilla never work? That's what I'm asking. That's what I've always asked.

Obviously Spielberg, Taratino, Scorsese, Raimi, etc., etc., etc. don't think a Godzilla movie would be profitable. If they did, they would have made one! Look at my last post...I said just that! You guys are repeating what I've already said.

What is it about the Godzilla character that "won't work" for American audiences?

I agree and disagree with it however..simply don't have the time to reply in a like manner, but I'll do the best I can here...

I agree that most highly prolific film makers and industry insiders deem Godzilla un profitable right now, but as Jelly Donut said...it only takes one to turn that trend around...the example of superheroes is excellent...not too long ago you would have been laughed at for trying to bring the amount of star power and money towards comic films like we have today...

How willing is the public though for some more kaiju action? That seems to be the primary concern of the industry and the fans alike...most seem to think none and this could be true...but a succesful product isn't always one that is essential to the market place or one that fans are foaming from the mouths for...you create the excitement by the cast, crew, and talent that a film has...Star Trek is an example of something that was laughed at years ago and now has a new life thanks to some great actors and a great director.

Steven Speilberg keeps being brought up as a prolific G-Fan but many of you forget that he has also had some un kind words about Godzilla and his movies in the past...just look at the special featurettes on the Jurassic Park dvd...he might kinda like Godzilla but not enough to throw his Hollywood capital behind it (same goes for Cameron ect)...he was fond of Transformers and thusly threw his might behind that film...Godzilla simply didn't inspire him enough to want to make a new film...he didn't have a vision for it like he did for Transformers....

Honestly, how many huge G-Fans do we have in Hollywood who truly "get" the kaiju genre? I can't think of any that are outspoken and notorious for it..

I've said before that I think us American's should stay out of making anymore Godzilla films because the suits and film makers over here simply aren't eager to make it and thusly any film made over here would try to do what Godzilla 1998 did and bring Godzilla to the public instead of the movie and character speaking for themselves and drawing people in.(granted a little compromise is nessecary to make the franchise "cool" even in Japan, but again Star Trek is an example of how this can be done properly)

The only thing the west should do for Godzilla is possibly help finance a new Toho production and provide some our special effects work...but especially if Godzilla is to become a metaphor of the atomic bomb again like a lot of fans want then it would be drastically in bad taste for America to make a movie about the bad effects of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan and what that devastation is like after wards...

I sometimes fear that Godzilla is endanger of becoming the Japanese Mickey Mouse...a widely recognized symbol of a movie studio but devoid of any drawing power in the cinemas and having not been featured in any film of notice or at all in decades..

But then I remember something that the suits and assosiated film makers arent...Godzilla is every boy's dream...rockets...monsters...dinosaurs...aliens...military...Godzilla and Toho sci fi has it all...horror, sci fi, action adventure, and fantasy...Godzilla is a recipe for a blockbuster if only the stigma can be dropped...and I'm pretty sure a trailer featuring all of these things would draw just about anybody in and one good movie once they are in is all that it will take...Star Trek was infinetly dorkier and less cool and managed to draw people in

The key is the people behind any new film...Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Batman...it's been done before...re vitalizing a property just takes someone of worth who sees something in it that no one else has or something that no one has been able to show fully yet...ultimately it's up to Toho...but this is one risk that can end up being a big cash pay out for them if they play their cards right...and I think they know this and that is why they wait



Thank you sir. I guess you just managed to say what I couldn't say. I hate it when that happens! :lol:
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:43 pm

GojiraKnight wrote:For the record zekend01, Ben and KPA just did what you didn't, couldn't or wouldn't do.

That's how you answer someone's question/comment/opinion. I accept your apology and I do hope you realize that it was you who let this escalate out of control.

Never once did I personally attack you. You have accussed me of being conspiratorial, inexperienced, naive, having a borderline personality disorder, being insane and that's all just from the top of my head. There was more.

Now, my feelings weren't (and aren't) hurt. But I'll be frank. If you're going to resort to personal attacks in a completely innocent discussion about Godzilla than that says more about you than me.

However you apologized and said you felt bad about what you said. Having no reason not to I'll take you at your word and accept. Thank you.


Hey, as long as you're happy, that's all that matters, right? :lol:

Oh, that we could meet and settle this in a back alley ER..., I mean over beers! BEERS! That would be lovely assuming you're old enough to drink. :D
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Postby king_ghidorah » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:45 pm

I am! I am! I'm very very in for beers!
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Postby Gojiraknight » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:28 pm

Oh, that we could meet and settle this in a back alley ER..., I mean over beers! BEERS! That would be lovely assuming you're old enough to drink.


If you're not old enough to drink you're not old enough to argue, right?

But I suppose Henry Louis Gates and Sgt. Crowley had a bigger misunderstanding than we did. Bottoms up.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:49 pm

GojiraKnight wrote:Why would an American Godzilla never work?

i dont think anyone said that

i just think they said it wouldn't work RIGHT NOW or in the near future...face it, there hasn't been a kaiju film in like 70 years that's made any eye-bulging money or gained an eye-bulging amount of fans, and right now, nobody is willing to make one

it doesnt mean that 20 years from now, when all the classic-horror remakes and comic book adaptations have been done and ruined that someone wont do it...but it does mean that it PROBABLY wont be anyone that's a prolific film maker RIGHT NOW
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Postby Destroysall » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:04 am

DID SOMEONE SAY BEER??????????????? :shock:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Well said jellydonut25!
uhh...
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:51 am

And this is the prevailing hope that underlines everything in the fandom right now. No wonder this tread got so much mileage!


That's because this thread has veered off course. Remember, the original question about about budget size from an American company. Not that I mind, it's good to have discussion.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:02 pm

i dont think anyone said that

i just think they said it wouldn't work RIGHT NOW or in the near future...face it, there hasn't been a kaiju film in like 70 years that's made any eye-bulging money or gained an eye-bulging amount of fans, and right now, nobody is willing to make one

it doesnt mean that 20 years from now, when all the classic-horror remakes and comic book adaptations have been done and ruined that someone wont do it...but it does mean that it PROBABLY wont be anyone that's a prolific film maker RIGHT NOW


In some ways I think it goes deeper than that. I hope you're right but I'm not sure. Remember efforts were made for almost 20 years to make an American G-film before GINO.

It just seems like there has never been a whole lot of enthusiasm in Hollywood for Godzilla. And if Spielberg actually told D & E that a Godzilla film would never work in America then that indicates to me something deeper than just profitability.

Is Godzilla too Japanese? Is he too somber? Is the character too ambiguous (bad-->good-->antihero)? Or is the fact that Godzilla was created by an American weapon make the character intrinsically anti-American?

If you take the character down to a base level (giant invinceable dinosaur that breathes fire and destroys cities) then personally I think that would be very appealing to American audiences. That's a great concept!

So what is it about Godzilla that Spielberg (and everyone else) thinks turns Americans off? The bomb? The cheesiness? What?
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Postby walshiam » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:01 pm

I agree. Godzilla should never be made in the U.S. Part of the mystique of the character is due to the mystique of Japan.
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Postby zekend01 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:19 pm

GojiraKnight wrote:If you take the character down to a base level (giant invinceable dinosaur that breathes fire and destroys cities) then personally I think that would be very appealing to American audiences. That's a great concept!


Ahem... isn't that what D & E already tried to pull off (sans the invincible part, obviously)?

I don't think the concept remains "Godzilla" at all if you start stripping down what are fundamental aspects of the character. I would argue pretty hard that Godzilla as post-nuke coping/acceptance metaphor AND as a strictly Japanese manifestation is inseparable to what Godzilla is and always has been conceptually.

Any enthusiast pretty much banks on this, no?

In other words, take these Qualities away and you take away Godzilla and you're left with a very poor imitation (at best) comparable to the plastic commodity that was FRICKIN GINO. As in G.odzilla I.n N.ame O.nly.

Even non-fans have agreed on this.

And I'm not even getting into the regurgitated Spielberg bit. It has pretty much been run into the ground. But you seem pretty darned determined on finding a bigger connection there than exists, so knock yourself out :roll:
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:05 am

Lol...this is oddly timed...will give fans something to chew over for a while...


http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/17061
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Postby DannyBeane » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:26 am

King_Ghidorah wrote:Lol...this is oddly timed...will give fans something to chew over for a while...


http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/17061


This is certainly new and exciting :twisted:
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:34 am

Legendary Pictures is a very good studio...they did have The Dark Knight and 300...and at the very least..they have an example of what no to do...hopefully we can verify this one way or the other soon
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Postby zekend01 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:21 am

HOOOOOOo boy. Let the speculation begin. :lol:

25% of me has the highest hopes. 25% of me aint holdin my breath. 50% of me feels kinda touchy about the entire prospect to the point of where I'm gonna have to do some work on myself to NOT think that this is gonna be the worst kind of failure should this come to pass and SCORN it every step of the way. :?

I feel pulled in every direction over this. Yuck. :roll:
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Postby zekend01 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:24 am

King_Ghidorah, you might want to create a separate post for this man. I'd say the importance of it merits this.
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Postby DannyBeane » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:30 am

zekend01 wrote:King_Ghidorah, you might want to create a separate post for this man. I'd say the importance of it merits this.

I went ahead and did that.
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Postby Gojiraknight » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:24 am

Ahem... isn't that what D & E already tried to pull off (sans the invincible part, obviously)?

I don't think the concept remains "Godzilla" at all if you start stripping down what are fundamental aspects of the character. I would argue pretty hard that Godzilla as post-nuke coping/acceptance metaphor AND as a strictly Japanese manifestation is inseparable to what Godzilla is and always has been conceptually.

Any enthusiast pretty much banks on this, no?

In other words, take these Qualities away and you take away Godzilla and you're left with a very poor imitation (at best) comparable to the plastic commodity that was FRICKIN GINO. As in G.odzilla I.n N.ame O.nly.

Even non-fans have agreed on this.

And I'm not even getting into the regurgitated Spielberg bit. It has pretty much been run into the ground. But you seem pretty darned determined on finding a bigger connection there than exists, so knock yourself out


Sorry, is there anyone who thinks that D & E brought G down to his base level. He wasn't invinceable, he wasn't a dinosaur, he didn't breath fire or a beam or anything like that, and he didn't destroy a city. And in fact GINO did use the nuclear metaphor, albeit very, very superficially.

And dear God man, would you stop trying to tar and feather me with this Spielberg connection stuff?

I've only ever used Spielberg as an example of someone powerful and famous in Hollywood who is a self-professed G fan. It's not like I have a shrine to the man that I pray to every night. Geez.

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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:27 am

zekend01 wrote:
GojiraKnight wrote:If you take the character down to a base level (giant invinceable dinosaur that breathes fire and destroys cities) then personally I think that would be very appealing to American audiences. That's a great concept!


Ahem... isn't that what D & E already tried to pull off (sans the invincible part, obviously)?


GINO's not a dinosaur, he doesn't breath fire (no, seriously, WTF was that in the movie?), and he sure as hell not invincible. So no, that's not what D & E tried to pull off.

Lol...this is oddly timed...will give fans something to chew over for a while...


http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/17061


Holy "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!", I missed this! Now my thread have been vindicated. Bow before my mighty skills!!! :eek: :eek:
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Postby Destroysall » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:26 pm

King_Ghidorah wrote:Lol...this is oddly timed...will give fans something to chew over for a while...


http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/17061


Well I'll be damned!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2:

Guess there might be a chance. Let's see how this goes. Not sure about this entirely yet.

King_Ghidorah wrote:Legendary Pictures is a very good studio...they did have The Dark Knight and 300...and at the very least..they have an example of what no to do...hopefully we can verify this one way or the other soon


I just hope that they actually learn from that example and not do it!
uhh...
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:39 pm

I didn't want to make a new thread until we learn if there is any merit to this or not...we could find out in another day that it is BS...but since there already is one...well..I'll continue this discussion there now...thought it merited a post here though just because of the subject matter recently on the past page or two of this thread
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:45 pm

Well, where's the staff of sci fi japan! Get your ass in gear, guys! *cracks whip*
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Postby Mac » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:13 pm

Don't get your hopes up guys, early discussions and we all know Toho is a "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" to deal with.
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Postby Robert Saint John » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:27 pm

Go ahead and discuss the rumored Legendary Pictures project in this thread here:

http://www.clubtokyo.org/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=16036
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Postby kpa » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:34 am

TerranigmaFreak wrote:Well, where's the staff of sci fi japan! Get your ass in gear, guys! *cracks whip*


:lol: We're looking into it but won't run anything on SFJ until there's some concrete info to share. We hear rumors all the time and 99% turn out to false so we never run them. If this one turns out to be true we'll be happy to share whatever info we find out.
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