Fan Boys have to get hurt..in order for a Epic Godzilla

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Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed May 21, 2008 10:29 pm

One thing I'll never understand is the idea that an epic or dark film will bring success to the series. I mean....we've never had blood, gore, or the epic-ness that's mentioned by the original poster but the franchise has lasted thus far, right? I mean there aren't movies, but we had some (albeit pretty shoddy) video games released recently. Toys are made, so...
...I should really stop posting, I'm not adding anything to this mess of an idea.
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Postby Legion » Wed May 21, 2008 10:40 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:One thing I'll never understand is the idea that an epic or dark film will bring success to the series. I mean....we've never had blood, gore, or the epic-ness that's mentioned by the original poster but the franchise has lasted thus far, right? I mean there aren't movies, but we had some (albeit pretty shoddy) video games released recently. Toys are made, so...
...I should really stop posting, I'm not adding anything to this mess of an idea.


Nah, your doing fine. Actually, those are my thoughts exactly.

I'm getting really sick of people who claim dark, scary, bloody, violent Godzilla films are what the series needs to be successful. It's really the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, nonsense spouted by people who have absolutely no clue what this series is all about and why it's stayed around for a half century.

Just give it a few years. Your going to see more and more of this insanity as the Showa classics (all of them) drop out of favor as more and more "true fans" who think they're too good for the original films start to come in to the hobby. We see it more and more each year: people completely intolerant to the movies which made Godzilla a household name in the first place who demand a dark, scary serious Godzilla in movies without an iota of fun whatsoever.

I just don't get it. What in the world happened to people who were able to accept the good with the not so good. I love every Godzilla movie, and I can pretty much accept the faults of those films I don't necessarily like. It sickens me how there are people out there who completely ignore a good 2/3rds of Godzilla's career and frustratingly cling to the idea that the only way Godzilla works is if he's in a film that would completely alienate one of his biggest target audiences.

To those people I say: I love Godzilla. Everything about the whole damn franchise. It's a shame some people are too jaded to feel the same way.
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Postby Garasharp K7 » Thu May 22, 2008 7:41 am

I'll echo those sentiments. Never could understand why some people feel that Godzilla films need to be elevated above and beyond their cult status and brought into the mainstream. It's the whole "Godzilla is SERIOUS BUSINESS" attitude that baffles me. I mean, I'm not opposed to some sort of mainstream Godzilla flick, but it doesn't bother me if that never hapens. I just like watching the movies, that's all.

ehh, but what do I know. I'm selfish. :)
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Postby Apelinq » Thu May 22, 2008 10:47 am

If Godzilla is to remain a cult figure it would mean letting the character fade into obscurity. Honestly, the films between Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster and Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla , were the low points of the Showa era. (Despite how many of us like Destroy All monsters.)
A few films in the franchise come close to replicating the seriousness and mood of Gojira 1954, and with one or two exceptions failed. Toho is going to still try to get the most money internationally out their star character, regardless of what we all think.
I'd personally like to see Takashi Yamazaki direct a Godzilla film, considering the recent cameo in Always 2, they seem to be thinking about it.
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Postby godziwolf » Thu May 22, 2008 11:01 am

canofhumdingers wrote:
Legion wrote:I'm going to put on Godzilla's Revenge, Godzilla vs Hedora and Godzilla vs Megalon tonight just to spite the original poster.


I don't get people like this either. Why the animosity for the showa era? The heisei era (your favorite) was just as campy & silly & unbelievable, just in a different way. psychics? giant plants with the soul of a girl? the origin for space godzilla? THE ENITRE PLOT OF GvsKG????? come on!


The Showa era gets remembered for the South Seas Godzilla movies which were endlessly rerun on cable. That stretch after Monster Zero, outside of DAM and Cosmic Monster were rough -- even the non-Godzilla one-offs were pretty bad -- certainly not up to the late 50s-early 60s peak of the era.

The Heisei era was just inconsistent. You sandwiched good movies (Biollante, Mothra, MG, Destroyah) around total dreck (KG, SG).
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Postby kidnicky » Thu May 22, 2008 12:22 pm

You have tattoos of Gigan and Jet Jaguar? That's "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" awesome.
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Postby Legion » Thu May 22, 2008 1:24 pm

godziwolf wrote:The Showa era gets remembered for the South Seas Godzilla movies which were endlessly rerun on cable. That stretch after Monster Zero, outside of DAM and Cosmic Monster were rough -- even the non-Godzilla one-offs were pretty bad -- certainly not up to the late 50s-early 60s peak of the era.


That's a pretty sad thing to say about almost half the entire Showa output. So there's nothing all that decent about War of the Gargantuas, Godzilla vs the Sea Monster, Son of Godzilla, King Kong Escapes or Terror of Mechgodzilla? you guys keep proving my point over and over again.

The Heisei era was just inconsistent. You sandwiched good movies (Biollante, Mothra, MG, Destroyah) around total dreck (KG, SG).


I think your the first person I've ever seen to call Godzilla vs Mothra a good film, and actually favor it over Godzilla vs King Ghidora. The Heisei series as a whole doesn't hold up the way it used to, but I don't think I could call Godzilla vs King Ghidora "dreck" with a straight face.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 pm

Legion wrote:
The Heisei era was just inconsistent. You sandwiched good movies (Biollante, Mothra, MG, Destroyah) around total dreck (KG, SG).


I think your the first person I've ever seen to call Godzilla vs Mothra a good film, and actually favor it over Godzilla vs King Ghidora. The Heisei series as a whole doesn't hold up the way it used to, but I don't think I could call Godzilla vs King Ghidora "dreck" with a straight face.


What?! I've been saying I like GvsM and that GvsKG is crap for a couple of years now! :lol:

But really, the only good films from that era were G85 and Biollante, IMO.
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Postby Mac » Thu May 22, 2008 3:33 pm

Godzilla vs King Ghidorah is a pretty decent film, IMO. The timeline is a bit awry, but its all cool.
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To legion.

Postby we77964 » Thu May 22, 2008 4:22 pm

The War of the Gargantuas and its prequel Frankenstien was good and I indeed enjoy them. They are serious, "dark", and doesn't carry some of the silliness.

Legion, I also do not like your attitude towards people with a different opinion.

Is the original poster a bit over the top, yes, but agree with some, if not most, of what he is saying.
WOG and Frankenstein had something that the South seas Godzilla flims do not have. Those two flims are closer to Rodan, GvsM'64, and Godzilla. Ask yourself this, why is the US poster of Godzilla vs Megalon have a more serious tone then the movie itself? How come the Smog monster poster have a serious tone?
Why do you think Godzilla vs Mothra 64 is more popluar than the Godzilla movies of the 1970's?

I hear that alot of yall enjoy Clover. Cloverfield despite some of the soap opera plot from the opening, has something what a modern Godzilla movie needs. You ask for fun, yes, sure but let's also have some goundness to it.

Godzilla is similar to Superman and Batman. They have a seriuos and dark origins and mysterious, but some elements in popluar culture allow some of the silliness in. Why do you think favor the modern Batman films over Adam West verison?
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Postby KaijuHQ » Thu May 22, 2008 4:47 pm

What? Aren't we all supposed to go by the old saying...
"Everything Godzilla is good... Everything Godzilla is good..." :D

I try to find enjoyment in ever Godzilla movie put out, excluding, of course, GINO. But we have to face facts that some are just not up to par with others. The series just needs to take a new direction all together, not leaning too far one way or another.

we77964 wrote:Legion, I also do not like your attitude towards people with a different opinion.


Better get used to it, heh.
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Postby The Top Crusader » Thu May 22, 2008 5:36 pm

These topics are pretty much the only reason I come around here anymore. :lol: Great entertainment! :twisted:

Anyway, I think in the next film instead of breathing an atomic ray, Godzilla should shoot out tiny razor blades that graphically slice people up, and flood the streets of Tokyo with blood.
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Re: To legion.

Postby Legion » Thu May 22, 2008 6:04 pm

we77964 wrote:The War of the Gargantuas and its prequel Frankenstien was good and I indeed enjoy them. They are serious, "dark", and doesn't carry some of the silliness.


How are these two films "dark"? That word gets thrown around like crazy around here. Really, what is so dark about a giant Japanese guy wrestling with a big fat dinosaur that eats chickens and little prop horses? Are you just making things up to support your opinion? I've heard Frankenstein Conquers the World called a lot of things over the years. "Dark" isn't one of them.

Legion, I also do not like your attitude towards people with a different opinion.


It's one thing to state an opinion. It's another thing to create a post as inane as the thread starter did. And like Jordan just said, get used to it. If you guys can complain about the fans that enjoy "trash" like Godzilla vs Hedora and Godzilla vs Megalon then I have every right to do the same.

Is the original poster a bit over the top, yes, but agree with some, if not most, of what he is saying.
WOG and Frankenstein had something that the South seas Godzilla flims do not have. Those two flims are closer to Rodan, GvsM'64, and Godzilla.


So variety isn't okay by your standards? All films have to be like Godzilla, Rodan, and Mothra vs Godzilla? I love those films dearly, but a statement like that is seriously hard to swallow. I'm asking you personally, what's so wrong about Godzilla vs the Sea Monster and Son of Godzilla? Both films have great direction, Toho's best casts, a well needed change of scenery, incredibly appealing music and some inventive special effects. If all Godzilla films were exactly like Mothra vs Godzilla (i.e. if the series wasn't allowed to evolve) I doubt Godzilla would have been able to survive for a half a century.

But oh, Godzilla vs the Sea Monster and Son of Godzilla aren't dark films. Forget how fun they are. Forget about all the people who actually do love them. They're not dark so they're not worth acknowledging as true Godzilla films. Very nice point of view. As a 20 year fan of both films I can't help but feel appalled.

Ask yourself this, why is the US poster of Godzilla vs Megalon have a more serious tone then the movie itself? How come the Smog monster poster have a serious tone?


The US poster of Godzilla vs Megalon? The one with both monsters fighting on top of the World Trade Center? That poster is hilariously over the top and corny, and that's why it works so well IMO. And the images on the US Godzilla vs the Smog Monster poster are actually quite true to the images seen in the film. So I don't get your point in either case, probably because you don't have a strong one.

Why do you think Godzilla vs Mothra 64 is more popluar than the Godzilla movies of the 1970's?


Simply because it's the pretty much the best and most polished film of the entire series. I doubt many people would argue that fact. So of course it's more popular than the 70s films. It's just an incredible film. But I don't see how this supports your argument, because it's anything but "dark". Godzilla is the bad guy true, but it's still light escapism.

I hear that alot of yall enjoy Clover. Cloverfield despite some of the soap opera plot from the opening, has something what a modern Godzilla movie needs. You ask for fun, yes, sure but let's also have some goundness to it.


Where's the "yawning" emoticon?

Godzilla is similar to Superman and Batman. They have a seriuos and dark origins and mysterious, but some elements in popluar culture allow some of the silliness in. Why do you think favor the modern Batman films over Adam West verison?


If it wasn't for the Adam West Batman TV show the franchise probably wouldn't be where it is today. And guess what Skippy, Batman was silly long before the Adam West show ever started airing. I really thought we were past comparing Godzilla to Batman and Superman around here. I guess not.

Just because a few Godzilla movies were serious and "dark" (whatever the hell that means) doesn't mean every single Godzilla movie has to be. And in order to blow a giant hole in your reasoning - King Kong vs Godzilla, a tongue in cheek satire which doesn't take itself seriously at all, sold the most tickets of any Godzilla movie in the entire series and continues to be one of the most popular and well known Godzilla flick of all time.
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Postby briizilla » Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm

what is so dark about a giant Japanese guy wrestling with a big fat dinosaur that eats chickens and little prop horses?


Funny as hell :lol:
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Postby Mac » Thu May 22, 2008 10:41 pm

I've heard Frankenstein Conquers the World called a lot of things over the years. "Dark" isn't one of them.


Maybe you should get around more often then. :P

Seeing as FCTW is often included and referred to as one of Takeshi Kimura's more darker and character centered works along with WOTG, H-Man, and The Human Vapour.
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Postby Tyler E. Martin » Thu May 22, 2008 11:24 pm

This is without doubt one of the most asinine threads I have ever seen and I would be remiss not to contribute.

Me, I'm all for variety. The idea that a Godzilla movie has to be all dark and gritty to be good holds little water with me, as I find enjoyment in just about every film in the series. Variety is one of Godzilla's strongest qualities, I think.
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Re: Fan Boys have to get hurt..in order for a Epic Godzilla

Postby Mexigojira » Thu May 22, 2008 11:25 pm

HydroGojira wrote:Its that simple

The Die Hard fan boys of Godzilla, that rather see Godzilla be all goofy, and for the kids, has been causing godzilla to be ridiculed for faaaaaaar too long.

The Big G deserves better than that, I mean I understand alot of you are selfish, and don't care what everyone else thinks of godzilla. But um.......I care...

Godzilla been my hero since I was three....and granted I didn't know what was going on when I was 3, I loved the movies. The Showa series of course, all that was funny to me, but as I got older, and got spoiled by the Hensei Series (My favorite era, along with millenium) I wanted the movies to be more serious, this is a character, that for far too long has been looked at as a clown.

Now I'm 29, got like 3 godzilla tatto's and been through the up's and downs of the series....my worst fears came true with G98, The one shot for us to get some respect in america....and on my way to go see the movie opening day I finally see the godzilla model in a circular in my newspaper.....disgusted...jerry the t-rex...ugh..

Then I get hit with the news that Godzilla is going away for 10 years....10 long years...cause the franchise ain't making money. Well damn, maybe its cause they are still acting like its the 70's with that ATROCIOUS Final Wars..

Did we really need a Destroy All Monsters remake?
I mean I took D.A.M. more serious than Final Wars...

that was just a horrible....horrible movie, and thats what I'm left with? Thats what I'm left with for 10 years....Final Wars?

Where did we go wrong???
So we got a handfull of people that eat up the camp of godzilla
But you got others that want a decent movie, I feel like i'm being strung along here...

Yea Cloverfield was good....cause there was danger....I don't agree with the way the film was captured but....that movie worked (with such a monster that godzilla could have whooped on)

Now Imagine a movie where something like cloverfield comes along and attacks....give godzilla ...10 minutes of film time just to take out the monster, and that movie will be better than final wars...

Anything...I mean...what are we waiting for...
Me to win the lotto so I can produce a decent godzilla film?
We'll we are going to be waiting a long time for that..

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Postby MouthForWar » Thu May 22, 2008 11:29 pm

I think the only reason people want a "serious" Godzilla movie is because they want Godzilla be accepted by the mainstream, something I just don't see any appeal in. People think that a serious movie will make people take Godzilla seriously, but it won't.

Besides, I don't want Godzilla to reach the mainstream. I don't know why people want that, it makes no sense. You want Godzilla to be boring, homogenized crap? He's already an icon, but that isn't good enough? He needs to be loved by everybody in the world and taken super seriously? Sorry, but Godzilla doesn't need to become the next Star Wars. Godzilla was never about being boring, average, and mainstream and it should stay that way.

Sometimes I wonder how Ishiro Honda and Eiji Tsuburaya still haven't come back from the grave taking revenge on everyone (especially these "fans") for pissing on it all the time.
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Legion stuipd up.

Postby we77964 » Fri May 23, 2008 1:27 am

Mac wrote:Maybe you should get around more often then. :P
Seeing as FCTW is often included and referred to as one of Takeshi Kimura's more darker and character centered works along with WOTG, H-Man, and The Human Vapour.

Thank you for proving my point.
Legion wrote:How are these two films "dark"? That word gets thrown around like crazy around here. Really, what is so dark about a giant Japanese guy wrestling with a big fat dinosaur that eats chickens and little prop horses? Are you just making things up to support your opinion? I've heard Frankenstein Conquers the World called a lot of things over the years. "Dark" isn't one of them.
I think you need to read the post by Mac. He just prove my point. [b]It is “darkâ€
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Postby Xenorama » Fri May 23, 2008 1:43 am

i'm still agog over Superman having a "dark and mysterious" origin. aide from his planet exploding (granted, a big aside) not much was mysterious about him, nor dark- though in those early stories he was pretty rough on the villains.

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Postby we77964 » Fri May 23, 2008 1:50 am

Xenorama wrote:i'm still agog over Superman having a "dark and mysterious" origin. aide from his planet exploding (granted, a big aside) not much was mysterious about him, nor dark- though in those early stories he was pretty rough on the villains.

David (Adam West's Batman saved the book from being canceled)


Xenorama, Superman did kill (or tried to) his enemies in the 1930's and 40's. But the some within the US government bash the comic book companies into making Superman, Batman, and the rest "more friendly".
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Postby MouthForWar » Fri May 23, 2008 2:01 am

Uhhhh, Superman never killed his enemies.

Batman did at one point (VERY briefly, meaning literally A FEW comics), but not Superman.

And just because movies like FCTW, Gvs the Thing, etc. play it with a straight face doesn't make them "dark" in the slightest. It means one thing and one thing only: And that's that the film makers didn't look down on the story and they treated it as a story with a grand scope. The tone of the films was lighthearted, which is the OPPOSITE OF A DARK TONE IN A FILM, and in MOST OF THESE CASES, Mr. Tsuburaya, Honda, Tanaka and Fukuda were making films to appeal to ALL AGES, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN. If you know what you were talking about, you'd realize that. They weren't dark at all, not even WOTG. That's just a plain stupid thing to say. Dark is usually referred to as dealing with evil, death, pessimism.

Before you misuse the term "dark" again, learn what the word means. In the mean time, stop acting like a clown and read a book about the genre and learn what it was always intended to be by its film makers. You'll find that your ideals are contradicted by the creators of the films. If you don't like it, move onto another genre to boast and blow hot air about making things "dark." Its obvious you and the original poster in this topic just plain DON'T GET what made these films so wonderful in the first place, so go find something else to whine about.
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How dare I say dark !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby we77964 » Fri May 23, 2008 2:15 am

MouthForWar wrote:Uhhhh, Superman never killed his enemies.

Batman did at one point (VERY briefly, meaning literally A FEW comics), but not Superman.

And just because movies like FCTW, Gvs the Thing, etc. play it with a straight face doesn't make them "dark" in the slightest. That's just a plain stupid thing to say. Dark is usually referred to as dealing with evil, death, pessimism. Before you misuse the term "dark" again, learn what the word means. In the mean time, stop acting like a clown and read a book about the genre and learn what it was always intended to be by its film makers. You'll find that your ideals are contradicted by the creators of the films. If you don't like it, move onto another genre to boast about making things "dark"


Superman did kill in the early days. Look it up. Stories like Superman fighting World War 2 or Superman's first encounter with Lex Luthor. Your meaning of dark is different than mine. You and Legion acted like I am berating the fans of the lighter tone films. I want to return to its roots. Like it or not, the roots were dark is it?

GFW was a let down. I was expecting something of a darker opps my bad :roll: a more adult verison of Monster Zero. All I got was silliness.

I want the next one to return godzilla to his roots without the bore of the VS series and silliness of the late Showa era.
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Postby we77964 » Fri May 23, 2008 2:23 am

How dare did I say dark!!!!!!!!!!!


If it was the creator's intention which you maybe right. But how come Rodan, Varan, and Godzilla have dark...oppps my bad....I mean serious origins in their storyline ?
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Re: Legion stuipd up.

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri May 23, 2008 3:40 am

[quote="we77964"]It is “darkâ€


2019 Edit: I think this post was a casualty of the board's server change years past.
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