GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby MouthForWar » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:33 pm

John Schuermann wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:
canofhumdingers wrote:The bluray.com review seems to indicate everything is fine and dandy. Then you go to the screenshots page and see this:

Image


:?

I DEMAND to know where nonsense like this comes from. DEMAND, I SAY!

Ok, I'm just kidding mostly, but I've check out my disc on three different uncalibrated displays (I know, I'm a terrible person for not calibrating my display) and I'm fully convinced that if it looks this terrible, you've got a terrible TV. That might sound harsh, but it looks NOTHING as bad as these kinds of screenshots, except on my one TV which is a piece of crap Black Friday special pile of garbage that I only tolerate because I use it sparingly.


The blu-ray.com screenshots are straight grabs of the actual MPEG stream coming off the disc, not pics taken off the reviewer's TV. So that should be an accurate picture. But of course, there are tons of quick cuts during those battles, so this might be a quick shot that passes so quickly most of us don't notice it. The other screenshots at blu-ray.com look representative of the release.


No, jelly is right, this screenshot is wack. This is the exact same shot taken off of my TV... which IS calibrated properly and didn't need any tinkering to get it to look like this.

Image
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Shokara » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:10 pm

Ok, I finally got done watching the 2D Blu-ray after finishing my long backlog of other BDs. I agree with mostly everyone here that while a little on the dark side I was able to see everything fine and dandy, and despite being a little dark the BD was very sharp and detailed. A delight to look at. I admit that while I would prefer the overall picture to look like the footage in the special features, this whole "darkness" issue everyone was in a frenzy about for a long while is not really an issue, for me at least. And my TV was "calibrated" only by eye, just making adjustments while a movie was on until I got the picture to look appealing to me. Granted I've only watched it on one TV, my Samsung 2008 model LN32A550 1080p LCD. Also, I couldn't help but freezeframe my way through the atomic breath scenes. Beautiful. :D
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby XvGojira » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:14 pm

I swear that screen cap from Blu-ray.com gets darker and darker each time I see it. I think that picture is cursed.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby John Schuermann » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:07 pm

MouthForWar wrote:No, jelly is right, this screenshot is wack. This is the exact same shot taken off of my TV... which IS calibrated properly and didn't need any tinkering to get it to look like this.

Image


Can you share the time code for this specific moment? I want to grab a frame from the MPEG stream and post it, see what's going on. I ripped both the 2D and 3D versions and want to do a comparison.

It's hard for me to imagine that Blu-ray.com would tinker with a screenshot, but of course anything's possible. I can also try to grab an image off my 60" Panasonic plasma, which has been professionally calibrated to match a pro monitor (in other words, using the same targets as a studio mastering monitor).
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby John Schuermann » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:12 pm

william newell wrote:Just out of curiosity, could any of you that are claiming that there is nothing wrong with the video on this Blu post some screenshots of what the extra features look like using the same settings you use to watch the movie? I know on mine, if I leave the settings the same that I use to make the movie visible, the brightness is virtually unbearable. One scene in particular is during an interview(can't remember offhand who it was with)where the subject is seated in an office in front of some large windows with full daylight outside. Almost looks like a nuke just went off, it's so bright. As to menu's and special features/deleted scenes, while nice when available, the movie itself is the presentation I'm most concerned with.


If you now have blown out highlights, that means some combination of your brightness and contrast controls are set WAY too high.

One should not have to adjust their TV differently for the movie vs. the special features. My settings are identical.

There is nothing "wrong" with the video on the Blu-ray, it's just extremely dark. The detail is all there. I think many people just want the image brighter than what the disc offers and are pushing their TV settings to get a brighter image. Unfortunately, that also means they are going to trash the image for other material.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby XvGojira » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:00 pm

John Schuermann wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:No, jelly is right, this screenshot is wack. This is the exact same shot taken off of my TV... which IS calibrated properly and didn't need any tinkering to get it to look like this.

Image


Can you share the time code for this specific moment? I want to grab a frame from the MPEG stream and post it, see what's going on. I ripped both the 2D and 3D versions and want to do a comparison.

It's hard for me to imagine that Blu-ray.com would tinker with a screenshot, but of course anything's possible. I can also try to grab an image off my 60" Panasonic plasma, which has been professionally calibrated to match a pro monitor (in other words, using the same targets as a studio mastering monitor).


I don't know the time code, but that's
Spoiler Below:
right before Godzilla tail swipes the Male Muto into a building
.

EDIT: Added spoiler tag because, even though I'm sure 99.999% of us have seen it, I'm not taking any chances.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:06 am

Still, I look at that blu-ray.com screencap and I can't POSSIBLY believe that's the "true" or "correct" way it should look. Where everyone keeps saying "It's dark but the detail is all there" there's NO detail in that still. It's just BLACK smudges. It's nearly indecipherable, and the digital version of the film I saw looked about like that and the finale was essentially unwatchable.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby John Schuermann » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:59 am

jellydonut25 wrote:Still, I look at that blu-ray.com screencap and I can't POSSIBLY believe that's the "true" or "correct" way it should look. Where everyone keeps saying "It's dark but the detail is all there" there's NO detail in that still. It's just BLACK smudges. It's nearly indecipherable, and the digital version of the film I saw looked about like that and the finale was essentially unwatchable.


Interesting. On my Samsung tablet, the image looks just like what you describe - black smudges. On my laptop screen, the image looks dark but all the detail is there. On my studio LCD monitors, the image looks even darker but I can still see the details.

As I mentioned in my answer to your "can I just calibrate my TV using my laptop" question, computer and video levels are two different animals. I think this is why there is so much controversy over these screencaps. Just like a TV set requires calibration, so does a computer monitor. It REALLY gets complicated when displaying computer images on a TV, and images intended for TV on a computer. Even if you have a properly calibrated computer monitor, it's also going to depend on what software you are using to examine the image - even the internet browser. The computer monitor itself may detect computer or video levels and compensate automatically, but it may not. So may the software.

So many variables. No wonder everyone is frustrated. Add an extremely dark transfer like this one and you have this current recipe for disaster.

(Speaking of calibrating computer monitors, with typical consumer computer monitors it is almost impossible. How's that for good news?)
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby John Schuermann » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:25 pm

OK, I decided to get to the bottom of this once and for all. I dropped the pure video streams from both the 2D and 3D versions into Sony Vegas Pro, which is professional editing and authoring software. I then captured the same frame that we've been discussing (from each version) completely unaltered and posted them on my website. Here is the link:

http://www.jsmusicandsound.com/test.html

The top picture is from the 2D version, below it is the 3D version. As has been reported, the 3D version is brighter.

For fun, I also applied a computer and video level filter to the image within Vegas so everyone can see what I'm talking about when I refer to video and PC levels. Those images are at the bottom.

For anyone who wants to examine the original, full size screen grabs, the files are available here on Dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ixgkhqt9q08m ... zZs1a?dl=0

REMEMBER, all this will show you is what the actual video file looks like on your computer. It does not necessarily reflect how the image will look on your TV. I am posting this so anyone interested can see what the pure video stream looks like, and compare that to other screengrabs (like those on Blu-ray.com).

I'd post the images here, but I don't seem to have attachment privileges.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby william newell » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:25 pm

So John, I guess the big question is what are the chances that Warner Home Video will address this issue? I know, from those I've talked to, that this release is certainly not enhancing this films reputation. The question I keep getting asked is "why would you see this 8 times in the theater when the picture is so dark?" Then I have to explain that darkness was not an issue when viewed theatrically. Which then brings up the inevitable question as to why then is the home video version so dark, to which I have no good answer...
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby John Schuermann » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:03 pm

william newell wrote:So John, I guess the big question is what are the chances that Warner Home Video will address this issue? I know, from those I've talked to, that this release is certainly not enhancing this films reputation. The question I keep getting asked is "why would you see this 8 times in the theater when the picture is so dark?" Then I have to explain that darkness was not an issue when viewed theatrically. Which then brings up the inevitable question as to why then is the home video version so dark, to which I have no good answer...


The answer to your first question - I don't know. I have contacts at WB, but they are professional contacts and it would be blurring the line a bit to bring up fan complaints. However, if the opportunity presents itself I will mention the controversy. I did also reach out to Bill Hunt at the Digital Bits, as he has many good contacts at the major studios who specifically handle video release questions and complaints. He said he would look into it. Everyone else here might make Bill and WB aware of it as well, so I am not a lonely voice in the wilderness :)

As to your second question - why it looks this way. I don't have a good answer for that either, but my guess is that Edwards wanted it to look this way on home video. It's not like the studio just signs off on a transfer on a major new release without seriously QCing the product first. And there is the fact that the 3D version has elevated brightness levels, which means levels were tweaked prior to release. Of course, as mentioned earlier the only reason the 3D version is brighter is to overcome the brightness loss from 3D glasses. Once you take that into account, the overall brightness of the 3D version and the 2D version are the same. So again, the evidence points to an intentional, creative decision.

I can say with a certain amount of authority that the disc looks just fine - if dark - on a properly calibrated display. I have two of them. Do I wish the transfer were brighter? Absolutely, to the point of extracting a 2D copy from the 3D version that benefits from the increased brightness, which I play from my HTPC.

I also realize from extensive personal experience that the vast majority of displays out there are NOT calibrated properly, on the order of 95%. My guess is that they looked at the transfer on their pro monitors, pronounced it good, and never really took into account the difficulty most consumer displays have with this kind of extremely dark material. As I mentioned before, most LCD sets have a real problem with dark images, and LCD is far and away the most popular technology for home use (for reasons I never really understood). The studios will generally use plasma, projection, or even CRT to master on, as all three technologies deliver accurate images and good shadow detail. You never see LCD in a mastering suite. Add to that the fact that all the extra "picture enhancement" features on most consumer TVs are gimmicks that actually end up trashing the image, and you can see why there are so many varying reports as to the picture quality on this disc.

FWIW, part of what is going on with the new UHD / 4K standard is studios and consumer electronics manufacturers working together to determine common standards for picture settings, so that what is seen in the mastering suite translates to the home display. THX tried this about 6 years ago with their "Media Director" program, but could never get enough CE manufacturers and studios to sign on. Essentially, it was a flag on a Blu-ray disc that would "instruct" the TV to adjust the image to match what was intended by the filmmakers. Unfortunately, the program never achieved wide acceptance and has been put on permanent hold. Perhaps UHD will make allowances for the program, or something similar.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby John Schuermann » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:09 pm

Uploaded the images to Photobucket, so I can display them here. As I mentioned in my previous post, these are pure extracts of the MPEG file from the Blu-ray disc. REMEMBER, all this will show you is what the actual video file looks like on your computer. It does not necessarily reflect how the image will look on your TV (or even on your computer when you play the disc, as playback software adjusts monitor settings). I am posting this so anyone interested can see what the pure video stream looks like, and compare that to other screengrabs (like those on Blu-ray.com).

2D version: Image

3D version: Image

Computer levels: Image

TV levels: Image
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby william newell » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:27 am

Thanks for all the info, John, I really appreciate it! As to letting Warners know, I've already contacted their consumer help line and left a message. For anyone else with a problem interested in leaving a polite message, here's a link...

http://www.warnerbros.com/help/customer-service.html

I REALLY hope this can be resolved in some way as I would really love to enjoy this the way I did in the theater.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Gargantuan Gargantua » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:38 pm

I have not gotten around to viewing the German BluRay yet just for laughs to see if there is any difference between the two. Here is the statue thingy that came with it.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I'm happy with it even though he practically has no eyes and no teeth...
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Cookie » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:30 am

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/neigh ... 201318932/

Godzilla fell just a bit to #3 its second week.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Dai » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:28 pm

So with the blu-ray presumably having been released in most territories now (UK release was this Monday), is there any sign of regional variations in the transfer or special features? For example, I know there were some rumours about the Korean version having deleted scenes, but was that ever confirmed?
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:21 pm

I've watched the movie on three different TVs and it looked clean and clear on all of them, not too dark to see at all. The DVD does look extra dark on my computer, and it looked just as dark on my living room TV when I changed the picture to its factory preset levels, but on a properly adjusted television it looks A-OK. I'm positive that everyone complaining about the DVD/bluray being indiscernibly dark just hasn't adjusted the picture settings on their TV sets since they got them.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby william newell » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:40 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:I've watched the movie on three different TVs and it looked clean and clear on all of them, not too dark to see at all. The DVD does look extra dark on my computer, and it looked just as dark on my living room TV when I changed the picture to its factory preset levels, but on a properly adjusted television it looks A-OK. I'm positive that everyone complaining about the DVD/bluray being indiscernibly dark just hasn't adjusted the picture settings on their TV sets since they got them.



Actually, in my case at least, the problem was not with my T.V., but with my Blu-Ray player. There was a selection in my players set-up menu called "Cinema Conversion" which I changed from auto to video(according to the owners guide, the description of this feature would lead you to believe that auto was the correct setting) and viola! It worked! All that detail lost in a sea of black was revealed! I first heard of this on another board and decided to give it a try and am quite happy with the results. So for those of you who are having a "darkness" issue, check your players menu. Since different players use different terminology to describe their features, some experimentation may be needed to find the correct choice. Good luck! :)
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:29 am

Hav you guys seen the nice options Japan is getting for this movie? I'm just like WTF?. Why did we not get a nice premium edition like they are?
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Gman2887 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:23 pm

Not to mention the special features of the Japanese release is loaded. It looks like one version of the release uses the American extras as a seperate "Bonus Special Features" disc. I might be reading into that wrong.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby william newell » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:32 am

Dr Kain wrote:Hav you guys seen the nice options Japan is getting for this movie? I'm just like WTF?. Why did we not get a nice premium edition like they are?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the difference in the Japanese edition is due to the fact that Toho has the domestic rights in Japan, so I guess they're using the opportunity to load 'er up. I know that exclusive "Steelbook" which comes with the custom paint version of the Monsterarts G'14 and the "60 Years Of Godzilla" extra feature sounds quite tempting. I'm wondering if Toho will make their own transfer, of if they'll just use Warners...
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Gman2887 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:46 am

william newell wrote:I'm wondering if Toho will make their own transfer, of if they'll just use Warners...


That's been on my mind as well. I eagerly look forward to the reviews and screenshots for Toho's release.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby Cookie » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:05 pm

So, I'm guessing there's been no word about the Korean versions deleted scenes? I may end up biting on it....
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby XvGojira » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:45 pm

Cookson wrote:So, I'm guessing there's been no word about the Korean versions deleted scenes? I may end up biting on it....


If they weren't on the Japanese 5-disc version I highly doubt that the deleted scenes would be on any of the other current releases.
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Re: GODZILLA 2014 BD+DVD 09/16/14

Postby MouthForWar » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:05 am

The Korean version does NOT have any deleted scenes.

http://www.hidefninja.com/community/thr ... 238/page-6

The Korean version's initial specs had them, but the packaging doesn't list them and the people who got it say they aren't on there. Shortly after the specs were listed on Yesasia, someone at WB told toho kingdom that it was an error. But Yesasia never changed their listing, so Fans hoped for the best, but nope. No deleted scenes for Korea.
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