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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:48 pm
by Zack Metoyer
king_ghidorah wrote:Guys, once again, you can't compare everything against Criterion. Also, the only Godzilla film that would have appealed to the snobby film buff crowd would have been the original, the only "good" one by their standards.

I can't that crowd flocking out in droves to pick up King Kong vs. Godzilla on blu ray. No matter what languages are on the disc.

I suspect, from everything I've heard over the years, that Godzilla films sell pretty uniformally regardless of extras...and by uniformally, I mean just well enough to justify releasing them but they don't, by any means, burn up the sales charts. Its only natural for a company to want to cut down on their costs (i.e not including special features) if those additional costs don't equal additional sales.


Yes, these are all your suspicions. The revenue increase is unknown. You don't know, I don't know, they don't know. That's where arguments come into play. That's where the company needs a vocal, well organized, articulate fan base to convince them. You're talking about Godzilla as if it were always deemed a classic. That's not true. It wasn't until half a century later that film buffs started to accept it, and mostly due to "marketing" by the more reasonable and articulate fans. Their opinions changed, not just because it was a good film, but because we made them change. I honestly believe that if the fandom spent as much time building a relationship with folks at these studios as they have spent spreading endless negativity and speculative nonsense, that we would already have the releases we've been waiting for all this time.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:48 pm
by Jinzo Ningen
I don't know that the movie studios and G-fandom would be all chummy and arm-in-arm singing Kumbaya around the fire together or whatnot if we had better manners, but at least we might not be seen as the bane of... pretty much everybody outside of (and sometime INside of) our own little world IF we could engage with non-fans and the companies that might give us what we want IF we would act a bit more... mature. It seems that comicbook & tokosatsu-ish fans are some of THE most spoiled rotten, self-important, whiny, attention-hungry, bitter, overly suspicious and downright hateful groups of people on this planet. Now, being a part of BOTH of these groups myself, I can see justifiable reason for SOME of the resentment and suspicion that we have about our closely-guarded guilty pleasures but so many fans just take it to the next level, and light years beyond, that it's honestly a WONDER that ANYTHING gets made or done within these two genres.

I can almost guarantee you that if there were no money to be made with comicbook-based properties that no one in their right mind would be doing a damn thing with them. Kaiju-type properties aren't much better and in so many ways we are a hundred times worse becuase our clique is microscopic in comparison to comicbook fandom. At least there are many comics-based properties which are now regarded by the mainstream as "adult" and cutting edge. But with the exception of the original Godzilla & Kaneko's Gamera trilogy, pretty much EVERY single thing tied to live-action monster stuff (of Japanese origin in particular) is viewed as absolute childish nonsense. Then we Kaiju fans go and shoot ourselves in the collective feet by screaming in self-righteous indignation about every damn thing that interests us, shredding every potential motion picture, DVD/Blu-ray release, potential TV series or whathaveyou it into tiny little pieces before much of it has even so much as passed the developmental stage... and then we sit around and complain, wondering why there are so few companies or persons who want to deal with the stuff. Really folks? :(

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:50 pm
by H-Man
TylerPreston20 wrote:When you said different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership, look at Sony. They own the US cuts for Mothra for x amount of years, same with Universal.


Exactly the same, however, not the way you see it. Sony didn't have to re-license MOTHRA, BIOS or THE H-MAN from Toho since they already had the rights in perpetuity. They did have to get new elements from Toho so they could use the Japanese version. That's not licensing, and it doesn't mean they had to negotiate for the rights to show something they already owned.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:03 pm
by Benjamin Haines
TylerPreston20 wrote:When I got my steelbook copy of King Kong vs Godzilla from Germany, I was speaking to Ingo Strecer, the author of the booklet set, to praise him on the set and asked a few questions reguarding how they managed to get all the cuts into one set:

I'm not going to show off the email since it was private, but basically, in his exact words, they had to license the Japanese cut and other different cuts from Toho, Universal and Studio Canel to get them.


Again, you are confusing paying for the different materials with paying for the different rights. They had to pay to get materials for the Japanese cut from Toho and materials for the American cut from Universal, but the rights to the movie itself are the same.


TylerPreston20 wrote:When you said different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership, look at Sony. They own the US cuts for Mothra for x amount of years, same with Universal.


Once again, Cody is correct. When Sony released their 'Icons of SciFi: Toho Collection' set, featuring the Japanese and American versions of The H-Man, Battle In Outer Space, and Mothra, they did not have to re-license those titles from Toho because they already owned the North American distribution rights. They did, however, have to go to a lot of trouble to come up with suitable materials to present the dual versions of each film. You can read all about that process here: http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2009 ... -makeover/

If Universal were to include the Japanese versions of King Kong vs. Godzilla and King Kong Escapes on these upcoming releases, it would be exactly the same situation as what Sony went through.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:52 pm
by kpa
Benjamin Haines wrote:That's not how it works. Cody is correct. Different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership. King Kong vs. Godzilla is King Kong vs. Godzilla and Universal owns perpetual distribution rights to the film outside of Asia. Toho absolutely cannot license the Japanese version to any other company for a North American release. Universal could include the Japanese version on this upcoming blu-ray if they chose to go to that trouble.


Tyler, you have a terrible, terrible habit of misunderstanding what people tell you… I know this from personal experience, and your complaint here about being called a phony proved that again earlier this week. And because of that bad habit, more often than not you end up getting the facts wrong.

You should really try to grasp what Cody, Ben, GaryT and others here have posted. The info they’re sharing with you is accurate.

TylerPreston20 wrote:When you said different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership, look at Sony. They own the US cuts for Mothra for x amount of years, same with Universal.


Your Sony example would be a good comparison with Universal, but you got the key facts wrong so your conclusion is incorrect. You actually just disproved the point you were trying to make.

Sony owns North American rights to THE H-MAN, BATTLE IN OUTER SPACE and MOTHRA in perpetuity. That means they have those rights forever, not “xx amount of years”. And having the rights in North America is not the same as “only having rights to the US version”… you confused the two and that was your mistake.

In North America, Sony owns those films… US version, Japanese version, etc. They had prints of both the US and Japanese versions of MOTHRA that were screened at festivals and arthouse theaters for years before the “Icons” DVD set came out. And when Sony decided to release all three Toho movies on DVD, they felt the elements they had in their archives weren’t up to snuff so they asked Toho to make new interpostives from the original negatives. Sony used the new interpostives as the foundation and combined them with elements from their own archives to do the restorations of both versions of each film.

So the Universal comparison works in a different sense than you intended. Like Sony and their three Toho/Columbia films, Universal owns North American rights to KING KONG VS GODZILLA in perpetuity. And like Sony, Universal’s rights include the US and Japanese versions of the film. Your claim that Toho could license the Japanese version to a company like Discotek or Shout is 100% wrong because Toho signed away all rights in North America as part of their deal with producer John Beck to make the movie in the first place.

But having the rights and having the materials are two separate things. Back when Universal bought KKvsG from Beck they had no use for the Japanese verson (Toho controlled the film rights in Asia) so Beck delivered the film to Universal already dubbed and Americanized. With home video there’s now a market for Japanese/alternate versions that didn’t exist 50 years ago, so if Universal wanted to exercise their rights to the Japanese version of KKvsG they would have pay Toho – not for the rights, but for an interpositive of it since Universal doesn’t have any elements for that version. Universal hasn’t done that so far because they don’t feel the potential profits justify the additional expense.

When I got my steelbook copy of King Kong vs Godzilla from Germany, I was speaking to Ingo Strecer, the author of the booklet set, to praise him on the set and asked a few questions reguarding how they managed to get all the cuts into one set:

I'm not going to show off the email since it was private, but basically, in his exact words, they had to license the Japanese cut and other different cuts from Toho, Universal and Studio Canel to get them.


StudioCanal is a European distributor that primarily releases films in France, the UK and Germany. The company is owned by a group that is owned, in part, by Universal. So it makes sense that the Anolis Entertainment (the label that did that KKvsG steelbook) would deal with StudioCanal to sublicense KKvsG for a German DVD.

To include the Japanese version, Anolis had to go to Toho since Universal has no materials for that version.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:47 pm
by jellydonut25
Remember when we used to just talk about movies we like?

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:17 pm
by klen7
jellydonut25 wrote:Remember when we used to just talk about movies we like?

And Linda Miller! ::swoon::

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:34 pm
by lhb412
jellydonut25 wrote:Remember when we used to just talk about movies we like?


Like the totally awesome King Kong Escapes?

:mrgreen:

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:18 pm
by TylerPreston20
Benjamin Haines wrote:Again, you are confusing paying for the different materials with paying for the different rights. They had to pay to get materials for the Japanese cut from Toho and materials for the American cut from Universal, but the rights to the movie itself are the same.

Nope, I'm not. As a person who owns the set, they pay for both materials and rights as confirmed by Mr. Strecer. The Japanese cut, they licensed the Japanese version from Toho and used the R2 DVD master from them, the U.S. cut, they got the rights from Universal and their master, and the German cut, they got from Studio Canal and used a new 35mm scan from a private collector.

kpa wrote:Sony owns North American rights to THE H-MAN, BATTLE IN OUTER SPACE and MOTHRA in perpetuity. That means they have those rights forever, not “xx amount of years”. And having the rights in North America is not the same as “only having rights to the US version”… you confused the two and that was your mistake.


"X amount of years" literally what it meant: for a very long time. It's a shorter way of say "perpetuity" and is not to be taken literally.

In speaking of mistakes and listening, you might want to fix this:
Image

It says "title", but since it's a list of shows, you might want to change it to "titles". Also another mistake is when you call Benjamin my name when you were referring to me. :wink:

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:38 pm
by StevenScrivello
TylerPreston20 wrote:In speaking of mistakes and listening, you might want to fix this:
Image

It says "title", but since it's a list of shows, you might want to change it to "titles". Also another mistake is when you call Benjamin my name when you were referring to me. :wink:


Don't usually let my inner grammar freak out, but since this is petty as all Hell, I just need to point out that this is actually 100% grammatically correct.

ANYWAY, do we have any hopes for cover artwork? Personally I really kinda liked the covers Universal threw together for their previous DVD releases of these films, so I wouldn't really mind seeing them replicated for the Blu-rays.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:10 pm
by lhb412
StevenScrivello wrote:ANYWAY, do we have any hopes for cover artwork? Personally I really kinda liked the covers Universal threw together for their previous DVD releases of these films, so I wouldn't really mind seeing them replicated for the Blu-rays.


I wouldn't either.

... then again, with this being a dub-only release they could sell the retro aspect further by using the original US poster art.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:14 pm
by king_ghidorah
Thanks KPA for stating what I was trying to in a much better way than I ever could.

This sense of entitlement from fans gets old. There are plenty of ways to watch the Japanese version, subbed, available, None of them legit mind you, but if it's that important to you there are options.

For everyone else, you get a pretty solid American adaption of one of the better G flicks in HD no less.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:32 pm
by MouthForWar
TylerPreston20 wrote:
Benjamin Haines wrote:Again, you are confusing paying for the different materials with paying for the different rights. They had to pay to get materials for the Japanese cut from Toho and materials for the American cut from Universal, but the rights to the movie itself are the same.

Nope, I'm not. As a person who owns the set, they pay for both materials and rights as confirmed by Mr. Strecer. The Japanese cut, they licensed the Japanese version from Toho and used the R2 DVD master from them, the U.S. cut, they got the rights from Universal and their master, and the German cut, they got from Studio Canal and used a new 35mm scan from a private collector.


WHAT IN THE... No, as previously stated numerous times, the rights to a film are held by Universal... that goes for all versions of the film. You're confusing who has the rights with who has spent the extra time to secure materials for different versions.

And that SFJ headline actually is grammatically correct... "titles" would be wrong.

Geez, what's your deal?

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:45 pm
by klen7
StevenScrivello wrote:Personally I really kinda liked the covers Universal threw together for their previous DVD releases of these films, so I wouldn't really mind seeing them replicated for the Blu-rays.

Image

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:47 pm
by GaryT
TylerPreston20 wrote:"X amount of years" literally what it meant: for a very long time. It's a shorter way of say "perpetuity" and is not to be taken literally.


Sorry to be nitpicky, but in the phrase "x amount of years", the reader is going to believe that "x" represents a specific number. That is not the same as "in perpetuity."

It says "title", but since it's a list of shows, you might want to change it to "titles".
Don't usually let my inner grammar freak out, but since this is petty as all Hell, I just need to point out that this is actually 100% grammatically correct.


Yes--"title list" is correct.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:55 pm
by StevenScrivello
klen7 wrote:
StevenScrivello wrote:Personally I really kinda liked the covers Universal threw together for their previous DVD releases of these films, so I wouldn't really mind seeing them replicated for the Blu-rays.

Image


Nah man, this one:

Image

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:08 pm
by Benjamin Haines
TylerPreston20 wrote:
Benjamin Haines wrote:Again, you are confusing paying for the different materials with paying for the different rights. They had to pay to get materials for the Japanese cut from Toho and materials for the American cut from Universal, but the rights to the movie itself are the same.

Nope, I'm not.


Yes, you are. Re-read the rest of Keith's post - you know, the several paragraphs that you conspicuously chose not to quote or even address in your reply.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:40 pm
by klen7
StevenScrivello wrote:
klen7 wrote:
StevenScrivello wrote:Personally I really kinda liked the covers Universal threw together for their previous DVD releases of these films, so I wouldn't really mind seeing them replicated for the Blu-rays.

http://i.imgur.com/P6LqqQEl.jpg


Nah man, this one:

http://www.coverdude.com/covers/king-ko ... -97542.jpg
Hehe, I figured. The one i posted is easily a contender for worst Godzilla DVD cover. Gigan's is pretty bad as well.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:14 am
by Legion
Is Tyler listening to Ben Wagner again or something?

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:07 am
by Tom R VanSlambrouck
Changing gears I'm going to contact Universal and try to voice my opinon for getting the Japanese cut of KKvsG on the BD as it stands now that's the only way I'll pick up the film. I already have the DVD so unless there's an improvement then I see no need to get the BD. The same with KKE.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:10 am
by Dr Kain
Tom R VanSlambrouck wrote:Changing gears I'm going to contact Universal and try to voice my opinon for getting the Japanese cut of KKvsG on the BD as it stands now that's the only way I'll pick up the film. I already have the DVD so unless there's an improvement then I see no need to get the BD. The same with KKE.


Good luck, and I mean that positively.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure they would care as it would mean they'd have to delay the release for months on end just to include the Jp version.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:26 pm
by MekaGojira3k
Super late to the party but I'm so happy about this. All of these releases have me in such a good mood and having a new job to pay for them makes it even better.
King Kong Escapes is one of the best live action cartoons ever.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:54 pm
by Shonokin
MekaGojira3k wrote:Super late to the party but I'm so happy about this. All of these releases have me in such a good mood and having a new job to pay for them makes it even better.
King Kong Escapes is one of the best live action cartoons ever.

That's the spirit and I agree!

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:41 pm
by jellydonut25
I don't like this thread anymore. I'm gonna go play somewhere Tyler isn't.

Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:32 pm
by kiryugoji04
klen7 wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:Remember when we used to just talk about movies we like?

And Linda Miller! ::swoon::


::wistful sigh::