KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April 1

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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Russzilla » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:50 pm

lhb412 wrote:I can understand (but disagree) with those who'd avoid the Americanized King Kong vs. Godzilla... but come on: Americanized King Kong Escapes is totally awesome!!!

Honestly, I can't imagine watching the film without Paul Frees dubbing over Hideyo Amamoto to create maximum supervillian synergy.


Agreed. I'll pass on KKvsG, but i'll definitely pick up the Blu Ray of King Kong Escapes. Like I said in it's titled forum here on MZ, King Kong Escapes was/is one of the best English Dubbed kaiju movies from the Showa Era. You're not really missing much at all by not having the original Japanese version. (which I still hope for though BTW, but won't shed a tear if it doesn't))
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Russzilla » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:59 pm

JimPV wrote:
lhb412 wrote:I can understand (but disagree) with those who'd avoid the Americanized King Kong vs. Godzilla... but come on: Americanized King Kong Escapes is totally awesome!!!

Honestly, I can't imagine watching the film without Paul Frees dubbing over Hideyo Amamoto to create maximum supervillian synergy.

I'm with those that find the English KK vs. G pretty dopey. But I'm with you a zillion percent when it comes to the American dubbed KKE. Saw it as a kid and loved it; I'll be all over this blu!

Ditto to you both. This will always hold me over whether the original Japanese version comes out or not.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby EricDent » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:24 pm

That's cool that they are re-releasing, but with the previous version being pretty good (on DVD), can't really see a purchase.
Of course if it had the Japanese version on them, then I would get them.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby MouthForWar » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:52 am

I'll probably get both of these since I only own the US versions on old VHS tapes.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Pkmatrix » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:09 am

I'm a little sad (though not at all surprised) by the lack of Japanese versions, but that won't stop me from me from buying these! Soon...soon I will have a fully HD collection! :mrgreen:
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Jinzo Ningen » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:36 pm

But did Universal actually do ANYTHING to make these better than the DVDs they released a few years back or did they just port them over to Blu-ray format? I've sen plenty of movies on Blu-ray that look no better than their DVD cousins, sadly. If these weren't re-mastered then they probably won't look that much better than just popping the DVD version into a Blu-ray anyhow. The upconversion looks just fine on my Sony Blu player. Can't see investing in a double dip unless they went through a quality upgrade, like DaiMajin was compared to the old ADV subs-only set that came out before the Blu-rays. Just wondering...
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:52 pm

klen7 wrote:Linda Miller in HD?! ::swoooon::


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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby klen7 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:52 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:
klen7 wrote:Linda Miller in HD?! ::swoooon::


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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Zack Metoyer » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:17 pm

I'm not sure if there's time to change this, but I used Universal's contact form in the hopes that it generates an e-mail that can be forwarded, as I requested, to their home video department.

http://www.universalstudios.com/contact_form.php?email_id=10

Basically, I explained the situation, as well as the unanimous demand for the original Japanese versions on social media. I tried to explain what a positive difference it could make in sales, which I believe to be quite true in the case of King Kong vs. Godzilla.

King Kong Escapes is probably not worth their effort, but they don't need to know that. :mrgreen:
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:11 pm

Jinzo Ningen wrote:But did Universal actually do ANYTHING to make these better than the DVDs they released a few years back or did they just port them over to Blu-ray format? I've sen plenty of movies on Blu-ray that look no better than their DVD cousins, sadly. If these weren't re-mastered then they probably won't look that much better than just popping the DVD version into a Blu-ray anyhow. The upconversion looks just fine on my Sony Blu player. Can't see investing in a double dip unless they went through a quality upgrade, like DaiMajin was compared to the old ADV subs-only set that came out before the Blu-rays. Just wondering...


Now I'm going to have to disagree with something here. No matter what, BDs ALWAYS look superior to DVD. It may not be by much, and sometimes there might be nothing more than subtle differences, but they are there. The question it comes down to though is is it really worth the upgrade?
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:04 pm

Dude, it's not up for debate. It's a stone-cold FACT that there actually are BDs out there that don't look as good as their DVD counterparts.

Companies like EchoBridge are notorious for putting out BDs of that quality.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby lhb412 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:29 pm

Blu-Ray offers far superior quality than DVD. When a BD is inferior to a DVD of the same title it's because someone goofed up (Echo bridge using, what? VHS copies of films as a source qualifies as a 'goof').

A few years ago Universal had a pretty bad habit of applying DNR for their BD titles, but they've been doing a lot better since then. The new Blu-Rays will almost certainly look great.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Joseph Goodman » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:15 pm

Even if these films were remastered, it should be kept in mind that whatever material Universal has on them would be dupes made in the 60's, one or two generations away from the camera negative, at best. They're going to be softer and grainier than if they were remastered from the camera negative, or newly printed interpositives on today's duplication stock. They looked that way in American theaters, and will look that way on even the best scanned master for Blu-ray... it's just the nature of the film elements. So, temper your expectations accordingly... they should still beat a Toho transfer, though.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby TylerPreston20 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:59 pm

Zack Metoyer wrote:I'm not sure if there's time to change this, but I used Universal's contact form in the hopes that it generates an e-mail that can be forwarded, as I requested, to their home video department.

http://www.universalstudios.com/contact_form.php?email_id=10

Basically, I explained the situation, as well as the unanimous demand for the original Japanese versions on social media. I tried to explain what a positive difference it could make in sales, which I believe to be quite true in the case of King Kong vs. Godzilla.

King Kong Escapes is probably not worth their effort, but they don't need to know that. :mrgreen:


While I'm sure your intentions are good, if say they were to license the Japanese cut from Toho (which they can't do, they only agreed to own the US Cut), they would have to delay their "foolish" release date and license out the cut. However, if you request a third party licenser like Shout or Discotek to get the Japanese cut, they can do it because Toho owns the Japanese cut, but even then, the Japanese cut is in horrible condition. Either of them would have to make a new master to make the film presentable. That's how Germany got all 3 cuts for their release, because they licensed the U.S. cut from Universal, the Japanese cut from Toho, and the German cut from the German company that owns it. It's the same principle here: if a company after licensing the Japanese cut wants to include the US cut, they would have to sub license it from Universal.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby H-Man » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:34 am

TylerPreston20 wrote:While I'm sure your intentions are good, if say they were to license the Japanese cut from Toho (which they can't do, they only agreed to own the US Cut)...


Universal owns the theatrical, television, and home video rights to the film. There is no legal issue preventing them from releasing the Japanese version. What is stopping them is a lack of elements for it.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:23 am

TylerPreston20 wrote:While I'm sure your intentions are good, if say they were to license the Japanese cut from Toho (which they can't do, they only agreed to own the US Cut), they would have to delay their "foolish" release date and license out the cut. However, if you request a third party licenser like Shout or Discotek to get the Japanese cut, they can do it because Toho owns the Japanese cut, but even then, the Japanese cut is in horrible condition. Either of them would have to make a new master to make the film presentable. That's how Germany got all 3 cuts for their release, because they licensed the U.S. cut from Universal, the Japanese cut from Toho, and the German cut from the German company that owns it. It's the same principle here: if a company after licensing the Japanese cut wants to include the US cut, they would have to sub license it from Universal.


That's not how it works. Cody is correct. Different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership. King Kong vs. Godzilla is King Kong vs. Godzilla and Universal owns perpetual distribution rights to the film outside of Asia. Toho absolutely cannot license the Japanese version to any other company for a North American release. Universal could include the Japanese version on this upcoming blu-ray if they chose to go to that trouble.

The reason Universal won't be including the Japanese cut on this release is because they don't own any materials of that version. In order to include it, they would have to pay Toho to strike a new print and deliver it to them. As much as the fan base would love for it to happen, it's just not worth the time or expense to Universal. The reason they're releasing this new blu-ray is to turn a profit and spending more money to produce it, in their minds, would run contrary to that goal.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby GaryT » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:42 am

Jinzo Ningen wrote: If these weren't re-mastered then they probably won't look that much better than just popping the DVD version into a Blu-ray anyhow.


The masters used for the DVD were destroyed in the Universal fire, so the films were remastered. (Well, KK VS. G was destroyed for sure, not 100% certain about KK ESCAPES.) That said, the same source elements were likely used, so don't expect a dramatic difference in how the transfers look. They'll benefit from the added resolution of HD, but otherwise are likely to look similar.

they would have to pay Toho to strike a new print and deliver it to them


First, they would not ask for a "print", which is something you run through a projector. If Universal wanted to do their own transfer, they would request an interpositive. Second, they could just request clones of Toho's HD masters, which could be delivered as HD files for relatively low cost. But they won't do it because there's just not enough incentive to do so. With or without the Japanese versions, these films aren't going to be big sellers.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby king_ghidorah » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:33 am

These are two of my favorite movies of all time. Of course I'm going to pick them up.

And yes, it'd be nice to have the Japanese version of KK vs. G but having grown up with the English version, I can say that I'm content just to have A version on blu ray. The Japanese version is better, but to me, the English version is serviceable if for nothing else than nostalgia's sake.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:27 am

What is stopping Universal from doing the Jp versions is the motivation to care. They don't give a crap about the genre, they just see a quick cash grab since a new movie is coming out. I wish they would just sub license the movie to a company that would actually give a "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!".
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby king_ghidorah » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:06 am

Kain,

From what I understand it'd cost some money to get the prints of the standard Japanese version for Toho. Most people buying this film are doing so because they grew up with the American version. Again, the Japanese version would be nice but lets be thankful for what we're getting.

It annoys me how quickly Godzilla fans are to shout out terms like "lazy, apathetic, stupid" when it comes to US companies releasing classic tokusatsu on dvd and blu ray...but there's almost always a cost-benefit margin that these studios have to account for. These studios aren't evil, or lazy, they're buisnesses..the people that work for these companies depend on the releases making money for their livelyhood. Do you want your Japanese version so much that the release becomes impractical, and too costly, to make any money which means some poor saps could be out of a job (Media Blasters) and/or that we don't get any future releases...as imperfect as they are.

Again, be thankful for what you're getting and while I can't say you shouldn't want more...just try and understand other points of view on this.


I personally don't expect to get Criterion level releases with all of these films. I'm more than happy just to have these films in glorious pseudo-HD.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Zack Metoyer » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:19 am

Their analysts have variables at their disposal. Number of DVDs sold in the past, cost of acquiring materials for the Japanese version, etc. But what they don't know is how much increased revenue they will actually gain because of adding in the Japanese version. It's in their formulas, plugged in as X, some arbitrary guess. If this is ever going to happen, they need to be convinced their guess for X is incorrect.

For Godzilla, I wonder what the difference in sales was between Classic Media's single language Blu-ray and Criterion's bilingual set was? While not a direct comparison, I'm assuming it was SUBSTANTIAL.

This movie may be may be mediocre in our collective minds, but it's legendary in pop culture. It's the snobby film buff crowd that they won't get here unless they include the Japanese version. And I feel like those people outnumber actual Godzilla fans by a significant margin.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby klen7 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:26 am

is anyone else getting all these bluray releases just because bluray cases take less space on the shelf?
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby king_ghidorah » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:35 am

Zack Metoyer wrote:Their analysts have variables at their disposal. Number of DVDs sold in the past, cost of acquiring materials for the Japanese version, etc. But what they don't know is how much increased revenue they will actually gain because of adding in the Japanese version. It's in their formulas, plugged in as X, some arbitrary guess. If this is ever going to happen, they need to be convinced their guess for X is incorrect.

For Godzilla, I wonder what the difference in sales was between Classic Media's single language Blu-ray and Criterion's bilingual set was? While not a direct comparison, I'm assuming it was SUBSTANTIAL.

This movie may be may be mediocre in our collective minds, but it's legendary in pop culture. It's the snobby film buff crowd that they won't get here unless they include the Japanese version. And I feel like those people outnumber actual Godzilla fans by a significant margin.



Guys, once again, you can't compare everything against Criterion. Also, the only Godzilla film that would have appealed to the snobby film buff crowd would have been the original, the only "good" one by their standards.

I can't that crowd flocking out in droves to pick up King Kong vs. Godzilla on blu ray. No matter what languages are on the disc.

I suspect, from everything I've heard over the years, that Godzilla films sell pretty uniformally regardless of extras...and by uniformally, I mean just well enough to justify releasing them but they don't, by any means, burn up the sales charts. Its only natural for a company to want to cut down on their costs (i.e not including special features) if those additional costs don't equal additional sales.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby Jinzo Ningen » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:59 am

klen7 wrote:is anyone else getting all these bluray releases just because bluray cases take less space on the shelf?

NO. Space savings hasn't been an issue for me in years. Quaite a while ago I bought a few bulkcases each of 7mm and 5mm slim DVD cases, as well as 5mm double-disc and 7mm & 14mm multi-disc compact DVD cases and have been slowly re-formatting (or sometimes just trimming) the slipcover artwork to fit into these smaller cases and swapping over my single DVD movies as well as multi-disc TV series and movie series box sets into more space-saving packaging. Results in a TON of space saving on my over-stuffed video shelves. Definately worth the time and money (not a lot, actually) if you have a good printer and the time.
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Re: KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES on BD April

Postby TylerPreston20 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:02 pm

Benjamin Haines wrote:That's not how it works. Cody is correct. Different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership. King Kong vs. Godzilla is King Kong vs. Godzilla and Universal owns perpetual distribution rights to the film outside of Asia. Toho absolutely cannot license the Japanese version to any other company for a North American release. Universal could include the Japanese version on this upcoming blu-ray if they chose to go to that trouble.


When I got my steelbook copy of King Kong vs Godzilla from Germany, I was speaking to Ingo Strecer, the author of the booklet set, to praise him on the set and asked a few questions reguarding how they managed to get all the cuts into one set:
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I'm not going to show off the email since it was private, but basically, in his exact words, they had to license the Japanese cut and other different cuts from Toho, Universal and Studio Canel to get them. I even documented it as a private interview for myself:
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When you said different cuts of the same film don't fall under different rights ownership, look at Sony. They own the US cuts for Mothra for x amount of years, same with Universal.
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