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Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?! • Monster Zero x SciFi Japan

Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Discuss Movies and Soundtracks available in different formats, including the latest releases on Blu-Ray. As per Board policy, No Bootleg Discussions please!

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:33 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby O.Supreme » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:27 pm

Godzilla's Revenge is almost criminal in that it lead me to believe as a child in the incorrect naming of monsters.

Gorosaurus is called Brosaurus
Manda is Mander
Kamacuras is Gamackera and
Kumonga is something I've never been able to audibly discern.
There are no more good TV Shows, only ones that haven't disappointed me yet.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:40 pm

変の声謎だよ。
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:22 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:31 pm

Thanks, Ben! That's one of the more mystifying changes in the export dub. Perhaps the subtitles they were working with were very inadequate because it's obvious from Sahara's expression that he's made a lighthearted remark. For the same reason, I think the Titan dub was likely based on whatever Frontier used if not the earlier dub itself.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby lhb412 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:13 am

^ The export dubs Toho commissioned are what they sent overseas, so as soon as that was the case you can bet that's what the American dubbers we're working off of instead of some sort of translation script.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:29 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:31 pm

I've warmed to Frontier's Godzilla dubs over the years, although I absolutely think the Fernandez/Titan re-dubs are superior. I'd love to know just what they had to work with when they authored their scripts, because as you've noted, there are some nearly insane deviations.

I think the strengths of the Frontier dubs are the audio fidelity (they reportedly used major studio facilities for recording) and some of the voice acting. Bill Ross may not have been an excellent actor but he was competent. His voice and generally good voice casting aided him quite a bit. The same can be said of frequent leading man Burr Middleton. Robert Dunham was maybe the best actor of the bunch but I've never heard him in anything but supporting parts in Frontier's dubs.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby SeaHawk » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:00 pm

Titra's dubs usually don't have superior fidelity now (thanks Toho!) but I'm sure they sounded perfectly acceptable in original 35mm prints.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:19 am

Were the Titra-dubbed versions of Sea Monster or Son of Godzilla ever screened in theaters? I figure they've always been relegated to analog TV broadcasts and VHS tapes. Where would the original audio elements for those dubs be at this point if they even still exist?

The Frontier dubs may have crisp audio fidelity but the voices don't fit the characters at all. They usually sound stilted and monotone. Nita sounds like a shrill cartoon character.

Give me an Axis dub any day over a Frontier dub. Considering that Toho got Axis to dub Matango, Atragon and Dogora earlier in the '60s, how did they end up turning to Frontier for three Godzilla movies in the late '60s?

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:39 pm

変の声謎だよ。
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:52 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:40 pm

変の声謎だよ。
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:12 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby lhb412 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:43 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby canofhumdingers » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:16 pm

Watched GRA a week or so ago. The picture quality started out pretty strong which was a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately it quickly took a dive into standard Toho blur-vision. Especially with wider shots. Too bad, I’ve always really liked this film and was hoping for a bigger improvement in presentation quality.

Today I’m home sick and took the opportunity to watch the SFX feature. I’ve seen it before but it’s been probably 20 years and I never had subtitles. Understanding the narration made it far more fun to watch. And I forgot how much great unused footage of Godzilla himself there was from Mothra vs. Godzilla. That was easily the highlight for me.

Also, I’m very interested in seeing some (any) of the war films Tsuburaya worked on that this program features. Are any of them accessible with English subs or dubs to westerners? HD would obviously be preferable but I’d settle for dvd quality if I had to. And I’m willing to import as long is its same region or confirmed region free (at least for BD. I might still have a region unlocked DVD player somewhere in the attic).
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:57 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:59 am

変の声謎だよ。
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:30 pm

^ It's all connected!


I watched the 1986 documentary Toho Unused Special Effects Complete Collection on the set's bonus disc. The wealth of SFX footage on display is a treat from beginning to end, as is the brief archival footage of Eiji Tsuburaya at work. At just under an hour and with Criterion's English subtitles for the narration and interviews, this is the perfect extra feature for consumers whose first plunge into the genre's classic age is through this BRD set.

It's really fascinating to get this glimpse of where the genre was at in 1986, when movies like King Kong Escapes and Latitude Zero weren't even 20 years old, when Ishiro Honda and Tomoyuki Tanaka were still alive to offer their retrospective thoughts, and when The Return of Godzilla was still the newest Godzilla movie. Koichi Kawakita is credited here as the director of this documentary, so that would make this a stepping stone between when he directed the SFX for Sayonara Jupiter and when he eventually became the Godzilla series SFX director with Godzilla vs. Biollante.

I also watched Launching Jet Jaguar with Tsugutoshi Komada. At 5 minutes and 40 seconds, it's a brief but very cool interview with the man who wore the primary-colored robot suit. It's so great to get this kind of insight from a Showa-era suit actor who played one of Godzilla's co-stars.


Here are some more Monster Zero translation comparisons. One thing I discovered while comparing these is that Criterion's BRD uses almost all of the same chapter stops for the movie as Classic Media's DVD. They both break it up into 12 chapters, plus an empty 13th chapter slot that just takes you back to the main menu, and only chapter 2 starts at a different point in the movie between the two discs. Chapter stops 3 through 12 are exactly the same for Invasion of Astro-Monster between the Classic Media and Criterion discs.

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Classic Media's subtitles are actually pretty hilarious compared to Criterion's. When the Xilien Commandant reveals that they want to borrow Godzilla and Rodan from Earth, the sentence structure in CM's subtitles makes it seem like the monsters' number-names are the big revelation.

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It's interesting to compare the translations of Glenn's dubbed Japanese dialogue to Nick Adams' actual spoken English lines. When they're leaving Godzilla and Rodan on Planet X, Adams' take is that Glenn isn't worried about them because of how much trouble they've caused humanity. In the Japanese version, he's dubbed to say that he feels sorry for them despite all that.

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I'm not sure why, but whenever a character in one of these movies calls their older brother "Onii-chan," Criterion's subtitles consistently translate it as though the character is greeting their brother by name. In Monster Zero, Haruno says "Onii-chan" but Criterion's subtitles read "Kazuo," which is Astronaut Fuji's first name that no one ever calls him. Classic Media subtitled her line as "Brother" in this scene when they meet up in the lab. It happens in Godzilla vs. Megalon too, with Rokuro calling his brother "Onii-chan" while Criterion's subtitles read "Goro." In that case, Media Blasters also subtitled the name "Goro" whenever Rokuro called him "Onii-chan" so it's not just Criterion that translates it that way.

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What's the deal with the transition in this status report scene in the midst of the third act? After the Xilian Commandant on the saucer gives the order to eliminate all approaching vehicles, he reaches toward the computer in front of him and suddenly looks up past the camera like he sees something. It then cuts to a shot of Fuji running around a corner back at the WSA offices before finding the room where Glenn, Haruno and Tetsuo are located. The way it cuts to Fuji running right after the Commandant looks up makes it seem for a second as if Fuji is aboard the saucer and the Commandant is reacting to his approach. Classic Media actually subtitled the line "What...?" at the moment when the Commandant looks up even though he doesn't say anything.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby SeaHawk » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:19 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:20 pm

^ Maybe so. Criterion's Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla chapter stops are different from the Sony DVD, though. I know that Toho provided Sony and Madman with the same dubtitles for each of their GvsMG DVDs (including the "a???" line) so now I wonder if they had the same chapter stops too.


Here's another translation comparison for Monster Zero.

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In the boat scouting scene from Sea Monster, the subtitles between the Sony and Kraken discs use identical wording except for Ichino's line about Ryota being a maniac.

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby O.Supreme » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:49 am

https://youtu.be/tetXKdi9U3c

A video from AVGN about his disappointments with the Blu Ray format in general. He makes some points, but my agree/disagree rate is pretty much 50/50. He certainly acknowledges that he is no expert, a little more knowledge of the format and perhaps a better player could remove 2 or 3 of his complaints. I Still prefer physical media to streaming. But his foibles with a certain set that is the subject of this thread echo my disappointments perfectly
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:25 am

I watched the Honda and Banno featurette on the Criterion set's bonus disc. What a treat this is! It was recorded 30 years ago in January 1990, with Yoshimitsu Banno interviewing Ishiro Honda on behalf of the Director's Guild of Japan. Having Banno there to ask questions is great but this is mostly just 57 minutes of Honda reminiscing about his career and expounding on his approach to filmmaking, which is exactly as awesome as it sounds. After so many years of watching his films and reading about his life, it really is fantastic to have this actual on-camera record of the man himself.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby lhb412 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:07 am

^ I watched the interview and the unused effects special yesterday, and they really are treasure troves, not just of information, but to get actual subtitled on camera footage of these guys who've been such huge influences on our lives.

Did Banno do a lot of this? He seems extremely comfortable in the role of interviewer. The fact he showed his early cut of Godzilla vs. Hedorah to Honda and said he considers Honda a mentor is just delightful. I hope further American releases can acquire more Japanese interviews and behind-the-scenes specials.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby hanshotfirst1138 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:54 pm

This set is a bit of mixed bag-darn shame about the missing dubs, though it sounds like the blame has to be laid at the feet of Toho rather than Criterion for that, not to mention the missing extras-but it’s still really cool to get this big boxed set Stateside!
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