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Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?! • Monster Zero x SciFi Japan

Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Discuss Movies and Soundtracks available in different formats, including the latest releases on Blu-Ray. As per Board policy, No Bootleg Discussions please!

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Godzilla21 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:29 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Rody » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:36 pm

Well, for all the issues this set has, I'm still feeling pretty positive about it right now. I was impatient and ordered my set on Thursday before the B&N sale started, to guarantee getting the set by today, the 65th anniversary (which it did, in fact it came Friday! So it cost me a little more, oh well). I went straight to the eighth disc and watched the Japanese cut of King Kong vs. Godzilla. I'd be lying if I said this wasn't the film I was most excited for in the set.
Make no mistake, the transfer of this film is rough in a lot of places; it's a shame Toho hasn't taken better care of this film until recently. However, I'd only ever seen this version once before, in cruddy quality on a "bootleg" streaming site; so being able to watch this, officially, on my own TV felt pretty special. The fact that MANY other customers are probably getting to see this cut of the film for the very first time is even more exciting. This is a much better film than the USA cut would have you think.

I hope to check out some of the special features tonight and tomorrow. I think this set will ultimately be a win for me, albeit in bronze rather than gold. Hopefully, the success of this set might (MIGHT, MAYBE) give Criterion more sway if they ever want to revisit these films or tackle other Toho effects films, like Rodan and War of the Gargantuas which they already have.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:25 pm

2004: Sony licenses five Showa Godzilla films, releases them with new transfers.
2006: Classic Media begins releasing its 7 films on DVD, using Toho transfers done for DVD circa 2000.
2007: Final Classic Media Godzilla DVD is released.
2008: Toho's Pure HiVision project (lol)
2011: Media Blasters releases DAM on DVD and Blu-ray using HiVision transfer.
2012: " " Godzilla vs. Megalon, using HiVision transfer.
2012: Criterion releases G54 on DVD and Blu-ray using new transfer.
2014: Kraken Releasing releases three of the five 2004 Sony transfers on DVD and Blu-ray.
2019: Criterion releases the 1955-1975 films on Blu-ray using HiVision transfers.

If you ignore the Sony/Kraken transfers, which evidently have been phased out in favor of a "consistent" presentation of the Showa Godzilla films, this collection is the first upgrade these movies have seen since 2006-07. At present, there's no reason to believe we'll be seeing an upgrade over this set for quite some time, but we're on pace for new editions in the 2030s. I don't even wanna watch these transfers in 2019, let alone for the next decade or more.

Try to remember just how far we've come in home video presentations since 2007. Now try to imagine how much will change in the next thirteen years. Imagine how the home video market will be in that same span.

Like 'em or not, there's very little reason to think we'll be seeing anything but the Toho Pure HiVision transfers for a long while.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Gwangi » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:28 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby John Schuermann » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:11 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby John Schuermann » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:21 am

As an FYI - JVC projectors let you "blank" the top and bottom of the image incrementally, so at least when I watch on the projector I can hide most of the splices. I just adjust this electronic masking until most of the splices disappear. As some have surmised, when the films were scanned the gate was open too far. While this does reveal more picture area, the downside is that we are also seeing things we were not meant to see. Hello, splice marks!!!

Fun fact - the reason why they changed the Scope aspect ratio during the early 1970s from 2.35:1 to 2.39:1 was primarily to hide the splice marks. It was just a change in the projector aperture gate that reduced picture height, thereby hiding the splices.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby lhb412 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:32 am

^^ I saw in this video that Mothra vs. Godzilla and Invasion of Astro Monster are softer than Ghidorah because with Ghidorah they stopped cutting the original negatives for the Champion Festival
(Skip to 51 minutes in):



I can't recall if I'd read that before?

Pretty good video, too. Lays out the bts technical stiff nicely for anyone unfamiliar.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby O.Supreme » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:36 am

There are no more good TV Shows, only ones that haven't disappointed me yet.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:42 am

The problem with Mothra vs. and Astro-Monster is also a problem with Toho's digital transfers of Atragon, which seems to have had its negative cut up for a 1968 re-release alongside DAM ala the first few Champion Festival edits.

As mentioned in the video, Toho seems to have changed that practice in 1971 when they did the Champion version of Ghidrah, but still, it sucks that it affects four of the best sfx movies in the Honda-Tsuburaya repertoire. King Kong vs. Godzilla is the only one that's been competently restored as yet.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:46 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:50 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:18 am

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby william newell » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:41 am

Not to change the subject, but all this talk about the best Hi Def transfers has me wondering about just how clear I want these movies to be. While Hi Def is definitely great for live action sequences, I find that for effects sequences, it can reveal more of the techniques used than what I imagine the filmmakers wanted. One example I can think of right off the bat is "Valley of Gwangi". Watching this, even on standard DVD, revealed MUCH more of the methods used by Harryhausen than I had ever noticed before. The foreground base that he used to pose Gwangi on is alot more evident, the pre-filmed background footage looks exactly like what it is, and stands out to the degree that it becomes distracting, making the Gwangi puppet look more toylike. As to Godzilla and other Kaiju films, it's no secret that, even on basic DVD, the wires on the tails, aircraft, etc., etc., are clearly visible. I can't help but feel that increased resolution will make them even more apparent and work to really pull one "out of the picture", so to speak. There are other examples of classic effects movies I've seen where this(increased resolution)has taken what were adequate effects and made them barely watchable, you can see just too much,imo. Anyone else share this opinion? Any thoughts?
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby kiryugoji04 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:36 am

I understand that argument but I can't say I agree. To me, the artifacts of the films' creation is a feature, not a bug and given the resolution of 35mm, anything a good HD transfer might reveal was probably already visible to audiences when the films first unspooled way back when.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:23 am

I don't agree either. I mean, I may make fun of bad effects, but rarely have I ever let it detract me from the entertainment of a movie or TV series. If I had, I would have never even bothered to get into the original Doctor Who series as that is full of poor effects work. In fact, I marvel at how much work they put into something just to accomplish what they could rather than worry about the final product. On the subject of Doctor Who, look at the episode Kinda. The last episode to that story has a giant snake and it looks absolutely pathetic. Nevertheless, I found the sequence cool and didn't let the shoddy effects work ruin the scene for me. Of course, I also learned afterwards that they redid the snake in CGI for the Blu-Ray and did an incredible job with that too. Regardless, like I said, I enjoyed the scene with its original effect despite its cheapness that even the production crew seemed to have disdained back then.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby H-Man » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:47 am

Lol, Kain, aren’t you a big proponent of fansubs?

The hypocrisy is unreal.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby lhb412 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:59 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Joseph Goodman » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:33 pm

From 2012 to 2108, combined home video sales declined by around %50. In 2019, nearly every week has seen a %20-%30 decline in sales over 2018. Follow the carnage over on or .
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:20 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby canofhumdingers » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:30 pm

First, they’re not fansubs, they are fan made restorations and preservations (restorations restore different versions that are not currently available legally; preservations preserve, or save versions by using original sources such as theatrical prints that at risk of being lost).

That’s some mighty fine moral high ground you stand on that is built on a foundation of sand poured by misguided, greedy, and in many cases outright criminal mega corporations that lobbied congress to do their bidding and pass archaic copyright laws regardless of how it impacts cultural heritage or history. You bemoan and loathe amazon for their bad faith practices, yet you blindly and obstinately insist on obeying (morally corrupt) laws that Disney foisted upon us for their personal benefit?

Should the Louvre in Paris suddenly decide that half the art in their possession is unimportant to their agenda and decide to let it rot and be lost to history, would you not raise your voice in ardent protest? Because that is EXACTLY what Lucasfilm, Disney, and Toho are doing with the films they control.

As to your comment about Star Wars “bootleg crap”, I leave you with this:



That’s right, a 4K preservation that looks dramatically better than anything ever officially released on home video, including blu-ray. Oh, and it’s the original theatrical cut that’s not currently legally available (and hasn’t been for over a decade) on ANY in-print media format today.

Look, we get it, you support official releases. And it’s the right thing to do. It’s one of the main reasons I do plan on getting the Criterion set. But don’t get all high and mighty over fans who, unsatisfied with the way many companies improperly handle their “rights”, decide to take matters into their own hands and prevent things from being lost to history or offer a better viewing experience than can be had officially. That’s just pompous.

EDIT:
Perhaps this hits closer to home... Have you ever watched and even, dare I say, enjoyed the 1956 American cut Godzilla: King of the Monsters on either official criterion release? Because if so, you supported fan “bootlegging”. That beautiful restoration would not have been possible if it weren’t for passionate fans breaking the law and collecting those film materials, thus saving them from almost certain loss or destruction by the “proper” rights holder.
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:51 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby canofhumdingers » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:18 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby kiryugoji04 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:21 pm

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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby lhb412 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:02 pm

From what I've seen and read the consensus seems that Ghidorah, DAM, and All Monsters Attack strongest transfers?
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Re: Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

Postby DannyBeane » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:18 pm



I have almost nothing serious to add to any conversation ever.
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