EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

[Zack Metoyer]

I believe the show still explains that the Angels are the evolutionary descendants of Adam, who is an alien being discovered in Antartica. I'm pretty sure Misato conveys this to Shinji in episode 23, and Kaworu elaborates on it in the following episode. In the director's cut of episode 24 (and EoE) it's elaborated that Adam was sent to earth intentionally and his progeny were meant to be the planet's inhabitants.

[metal_bryan]

I've watched the original run of the series multiple times and I don't remember much about the angels ever being explained other than their goal. Misato does further explain some things about them in EoE to Shinji, so maybe that's what you're thinking about?

[Silver Kamen]

[Zack Metoyer]

Nope, it's definitely in the TV cut of episode 24.

Kaworu: "Adam, our father. Must one who is born from Adam return to Adam, even though it will destroy Man?"
(The Angels are born from Adam)

Kaworu: "Wait, this isn't... Lilith? I see, I understand now. The Lilin--Lilith!"
(Humans/Lilin are born from Lilith)

Kaworu: "Only one life form can be chosen to evade destruction and seize the future. And you are not the existence which should die."
(Humans and Angels cannot co-exist)

Shinji: "I don't understand what you're talking about!"
(The audience is confused)

[metal_bryan]

That still doesn't really fully explain what the angels are or what they're capable of. It does give us some nice facts, but nothing with depth. All of the depth is inferred by other subtle messages in the show as well as references to certain occult belief systems. Misato's conversation with Shinji in EoE is much more blatant with this information and gives the audience a better understanding.

[Silver Kamen]

[Silver Kamen]

[Rody]

I went through the Evangelion franchise for the first time last year. What a way to start in on anime.

I knew, going in, that Neon Genesis Evangelion would be very different from anything I was used to - but I still wasn't prepared for what I saw.
Coming out of Neon Genesis Evangelion, my first impression was that the show was a mess. The four arcs in the show went through abrupt and radical mood swings which I found jarring, and the latter half/quarter of the show totally confounded me. By the last few episodes, I felt I couldn't keep up (admittedly, maybe I just couldn't follow the visuals and the subtitles at the same time). It probably didn't help that I was also watching the series on some non-official anime streaming website, so video quality wasn't the best, and I don't know how reliable the subtitles were, much less which version of the episodes I was seeing.
I continued on to Evangelion: Death, which left me indifferent. I was seeing the same material over again, and it didn't make any more sense this time around.
...Then I watched End of Evangelion, which took everything that bothered me in the TV show and amplified it. That movie disturbed me.

...Yet, I didn't feel ready to drop Evangelion; something about it enthralled me.

I went on to watch the first two rebuild films, and these I enjoyed. The story felt much simpler, so I found myself getting more invested in the characters and being more entertained. It didn't hurt that Ramiel, Sahaquiel, and Zeruel got really cool redesigns, too.

Feeling refreshed, I moved to the manga. Once again, I found myself enjoying this version of the story more. There were some elements that bugged me, but the story still seemed more coherent.



Overall... I don't know. I feel I have a love/hate relationship with the franchise right now. There are a lot of aspects I like about the franchise - Giant monsters and "mechs", of course, plus well-defined characters, generally impressive art/animation, and consistently jaw-dropping music - but there are a lot of aspects I dislike too. The characters, Like Anno himself said, are all pretty messed up. The sexuality - an element I do not appreciate in any medium - is handled in a particularly embarrassing manner . Various subplots of the story, namely the Instrumentality project, are never fully explained. Most of all - and perhaps tying all these issues together - the story of Evangelion is, frankly, quite depressing. I don't walk away from Evangelion feeling like I learned anything or was really satisfied.
In spite of this, I can't seem to shake the franchise's grip on me. Something(s) keeps me hooked, curious, intrigued about the show and its successors. Maybe it's because, for better or worse, Neon Genesis Evangelion brought out more, stronger emotional reactions than anything else I've seen/read has. Maybe it's because I realize there is much more to Neon Genesis Evangelion than meets my eyes, so I want to understand what I couldn't see. I honestly don't know for sure.

I guess, as things are now, I need to either seek out one of ADV's releases of the show, or wait to see if legal issues get resolved and NGE gets a shiny new release, and watch the series again. Perhaps a second time through, I will find more to appreciate.
I also look forward to seeing Evangelion 3.0, as I've been patiently waiting to see it through official means. I have to admit, I'm not going in with high hopes on story or character - I just want to see fantastic animation with Shiro Sagisu's fantastic score!

[MekaGojira3k]

http://www.funimation.com/blog/?p=2838& ... OCIALMEDIA

They announced the theater listings for Evangelion 3.0

[Rody]

[tbeasley]

[mr.negativity]

[tbeasley]

Well with the big Godzilla news I saw it fit to bump this. I saw a lot of people in the G2016 forum confused about Eva or unfamiliar with it so I thought a rundown was in order in case anyone wanted to check it out -

Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995-96) - The original 26 episode series.
Evangelion: Death and Rebirth (1997) - The first 24 episodes of the show edited into a movie (you can probably skip this).
The End of Evangelion (1997) - An alternate retelling of episodes 25 and 26, basically giving the show an expanded conclusion.

Then we have the Rebuild films, which is a top-to-bottom recreation of the show from the original creators.
Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone (2007)
Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance (2009)
Evangelion: 3.0 You Can (Not) Redo (2012)
Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 (TBA)

The first two films are available on DVD/Blu-ray, but the third has been delayed for a while. The final film hasn't been released in Japan yet, and I guess Anno's involvement with the new Godzilla will stall that further. If you want, you can start with the newer films but watching the original show and movies will give you a better understanding (or not) of the characters and world. I got into Eva around the time 1.0 was coming out here and I'm glad I sought the show out first. I felt I was able to appreciate the changes and references made in Rebuild more.

So that's about it. There's more to the franchise, like the great manga I'm about to finish, but I don't want to be too overwhelming (it might be too late for that). If anyone has any critiques point them out.

[Rody]

Yesterday I officially finished Sadamoto's manga adaptation of Neon Genesis Evangelion - and I think my appreciation went up several notches. NGE is, no doubt about it, a messed-up, tragic, and often downright cruel story; but ALL the characters are engaging and sympathetic in their own ways, even if they aren't actually likable. Sadamoto's ending is much more cohesive and satisfying now than EoE was when I watched it, and I feel it ended on the best note possible. For all of its sci-fi, psychological and pseudo-religious trappings, NGE really is an intimate human story, and I admire it for that.
I've been strongly inclined to review the original series and the Rebuild films, but maybe I'll wait a little longer to digest Sadamoto's version.

[tbeasley]

I watched Death & Rebirth for the first time last night. When I was first getting into Eva I was told all I really needed was the show and End of Eva so I skipped over this, but I finally saw it for a decent price and decided to check it out. It feels like a movie version of episode 14, footage from the show is told in a scattered, nonlinear way but it's tied together very nicely. It basically makes more sense if you've seen the show beforehand, so this is not a ideal introduction to the series.

It essentially plays out as a preview for End of Eva. Actually the last chunk of the movie is the first chunk of End of Eva before the mass-produced Evas show up, which is kind of odd.

I also finished the manga, which was fantastic. It's a great companion to the show and almost goes hand in hand. I haven't seen it discussed as much as the show in places which is a shame.

[Rody]

It's been a couple of years or more since I first watched Neon Genesis Evangelion, and subsequently watched the Rebuild films. Since I still haven't seen 3.0, I decided to watch the first two Rebuild films again before I finally seek out the third film, as my patience for the stateside release seems to have finally run out.

I just finished Evangelion 1.11: You Are (not) Alone a little while ago, so I'm finishing up organizing my thoughts about it.

Although my memory of the original series is sketchy at this point, I think 1.11 tries to follow the series a little too strictly for its own good. The story feels episodic in nature, which doesn't always translate that well to film format; one example in particular is how Rei Ayanami is largely ignored until the third act. Some characters and plot lines are presented and resolved with less focus than they perhaps deserved, such as Shinji's relationship with classmates Suzuhara and Aida, or his walkabout after the battle with Samshel; other plot lines, like the introduction of SEELE and the awakening of Kaworu, felt like distractions from a story not yet advanced enough to handle them. I can't help but wonder if they would have been better off axed altogether.
...So what is the movie's story about? It's about Shinji Ikari, plain and simple. I've never shared the vitriol the character seems to get from most people, and although I can understand it to a certain degree, I think it's largely undeserved. There's no doubt that Shinji is no Shonen hero. He's a true child at heart; yet I find this to be the reason he is compelling. Here Shinji has been thrust into an impossible situation, with no preparation, no real expectation, and even no support. Shinji has every right to fight and resist, because he simply doesn't understand, and no one has offered to explain. In spite of all this, however, Shinji finds something important; he may not fully realize it until the end of the film, but as soon as he sees frail, injured Rei carted in to pilot EVA-01, Shinji has something to fight for. This is Shinji's struggle: he has no aspirations or self-respect. His father abandoned him, and no evidence is given to what sort of upbringing he might have had. Furthermore, his battles with the angels appear to him to cause more harm than help - again, Shinji can't yet fully grasp the scope of his new job, and can only see the results directly affecting him. It's not until right before the climax, when Misato shows him what is hidden in central dogma, that Shinji begins to realize the responsibility he's been given; perhaps more importantly, it's not until he recognizes Rei as a kindred spirit that he finds the strength - little though it may be - to remain and continue fighting. For perhaps the first time in a long while, Shinji is not alone: he reaches a sense of respect with his classmates, he may find some guidance in Misato, and there's a good sense that, even if Shinji is suffering, perhaps now he can at least suffer together with Rei.
Studio Khara did an exceptional job with this film as their first feature, from a technical standpoint. The entire film is beautifully designed and animated. The 3D animation is blended almost seamlessly with the 2D. Although I think I prefer the harder blacks of the old animation styles, colors here are rich and vibrant, and details are still incredibly sharp. Shiro Sagisu offers up a fine soundtrack that blends classic themes from the original series with new twists and tracks. Voice acting sounds pretty good overall as well.
One thing I hadn't really considered about Evangelion before is the sense of scale. Scale is something I admire and look for often in films, especially for genres like mecha and giant monsters. Evangelion 1.11 doesn't fall short in that aspect; everything about the settings and events - from the mere size of the angels and eva's, or the vast consructs of Tokyo-3 and the geofront, to the intense destruction of the battles and intimate technological details of NERV equipment - conveys how HUGE this story is. If blacking out the entire nation of Japan, in order to charge one gun, in order to kill one angel, doesn't convey how formidably powerful that angel is*, then nothing can.

Overall, I think I actually like the film about the same as the first time I saw it, although I'd like to think my understanding of the film's strengths and weaknesses has improved since then. Evangelion 1.11 is somewhat unremarkable outside of the art/animation aspects, but it is a fairly solid introduction to a new adaptation of the Evangelion series.

*Seriously, Ramiel is freaking awesome here. Sachiel and Samshel are pretty much unchanged, but boy is Ramiel a sight to behold. I really enjoy the visual style of Evangelion's monsters.

[Rody]

...So, I decided to also watch Evangelion 2.22: You Can (not) Advance tonight, because why not? (and my apologies for posting two huge text-wall posts consecutively)

Right from the start, this feels like a very different movie from 1.11. 2.22 begins to establish a new identity for the Rebuild series, as it integrates the stories from the original show into a new narrative. With bigger and bolder action sequences, and a generally friendlier atmosphere (at least for the first half), 2.22 starts out fun - which might seem odd for Evangelion. That's not to say the story is all fun & games, however. Although Shinji appears much more comfortable in his environment than before, there are still issues dwelling under the surface - namely, his strained relationship with his father. Shinji's bond with his father is still the strongest he has in the world, and he clearly wants to make that bond a positive one. This relationship affects more people than father & son: Rei Ayanami, as Shinji's friend and Commander Ikari's... Associate?... Makes her own effort to mend the bond between them. Relationships really seem to be the driving point of the film, more so than the first. Asuka Langley Shikinami, the second child, makes an explosive entrance, but behind her aggressive demeanor is a child as lonely as Shinji, who just might be jealous of Shinji & Ayanami for their friendship - not to mention frustrated that they appear to be favored due to their connections with father-figure Gendo Ikari. In the meantime, fellow newcomer & SEELE/NERV agent Ryogi Kaji pursues his own relationship with Misato Katsuragi, albeit in somewhat roundabout ways. Sadly, we don't get much about Kaji, but we do get to see him confide in Shinji somewhat, both offering Shinji advice and asking for his protection of Misato. All in all, Shinji remains the center point, and as these relationships, new & old, begin to build, Shinji appears to be growing stronger - until it all comes crashing down in the incident involving Eva Unit-03. The results of the incident - brutal and shocking - completely destroy any faith Shinji may have had with his father, and as a result, Shinji not only prepares to cut ties with the commander, but everyone else around him too. It's a frustrating moment, watching such drastic action be taken, but I think it illustrates how fragile Shinji still is. His new-found strength is misdirected, and all Shinji can feel is frustration and defiance. Yet Shinji still has a little fight in him, as illustrated gloriously after the tenth angel - the biggest and strongest yet - lays waste to Tokyo-3 and places the precious Ayanami's life in dire threat. What ensues is a startling display of both selflessness and selfishness, as Shinji gives his all to hold on to the one thing/person he still truly values - no matter the cost.
If there's one character that feels truly lacking, it's yet another newcomer - not only to the series but to the entire franchise - the fourth child Mari. Mari is a stark contrast to the other pilots, but not entirely in a good way. She relishes piloting even more than Asuka, and seems generally upbeat in personality, but no real background or development is offered her in the film, making her presence seem random at worst and oddly convenient at best (due to events after the Unit-03 incident). It's possible her story simply has yet to be told, but for this film on its own, she sticks out like a sore thumb.
There are other mysteries to go around, too: the mysterious agendas of SEELE and Commander Ikari, first hinted at in 1.11, are teased even more in 2.22. Little is offered to suggest concrete clues as to what all is afoot, but once again, Shinji - and Rei - are implied to be significant in upcoming events, giving Shinji's character development an insidious edge that may yet prove Shinji's cynical attitude right. The Evangelion franchise has always been complicated, and 2.22 proves to be no exception.
Like the previous film, Studio Khara presents an impressive job of art & animation with You Can (not) Advance. Everything about the move feels even bigger than before, from the lively and bustling city of Tokyo-3, to NERV's technological and military establishments, to the terrifying and utterly bizarre angels that continue to threaten humanity. Two brand new angels appear in the first half of the film, followed by Sahaquiel and Zeruel, both of which are featured with outstanding new designs and abilities to give the Evangelions and their pilots the most intense fights possible. Shiro Sagisu returns to score the film, recycling a few tracks from his work on the classic romance anime His and Her Circumstances, but also bringing a healthy new set of grandiose-sounding pieces to deliver what may be one of his best musical scores yet.

Evangelion 2.22 is, in my opinion, an overall more entertaining movie than 1.11, and a step in the right direction for the new series. I'm excited to watch 3.0 and see where the story leads from here.

[klen7]

I thought the Mari character was a big misstep. She doesn't serve any purpose in the story so her presence really only takes away from the other children. Also having her as some sort of secret agent takes away one of the things i liked about Eva over most anime, and thats the children were children, they were being used as pawns in a bigger schemes, they had school time problems and crushes, so having her as some sort of operative really doesn't work for me.

[Rody]

When I finished the original series a few years ago, and followed it up with End of Evangelion, I found myself shocked and disoriented by the experience. NGE's two climaxes, chock-full of convoluted emotions and plot twists, were more than I could handle at the time.

When I finished Evangelion 3.0, I found myself reacting in a similar way - but I think I understood things this time.

3.0 is a startling movie, to say the least. Shinji awakes to find the world he knows completely gone, and all of his former friends and allies coldly treating him like some sort of monster; even Misato snubs him, and Asuka can only bear him in disgust. Gendo, in contrast, is as blunt and ambiguous as ever, and Rei is missing in more than one sense of the word. The paradigm shift is too much for Shinji to handle, and falls further and further towards the brink of despair over the course of the film.
It all seems very unfair - even cruel - what Shinji has to deal with in this film. No one offers Shinji explanations; no one even bothers to accuse him. It's just taken for granted that Shinji has "sinned", and Shinji is left on his own to try to understand. Asuka's quick to label Shinji a brat when he goes against their organization WILLE and rejoins the remnants of NERV/SEELE; but can one really blame a child for misbehaving when he's never been taught to behave otherwise? Shinji is more alone here than he ever has been before, so who can he turn to for guidance?
This is where Kaworu comes in. Kaworu is open and gentle; he offers guidance and friendship to Shinji, and Shinji readily accepts. Shinji is still a child, and Kaworu seems to understand that better than anyone else; so Kaworu treats Shinji appropriately and encourages him as he needs. However, Kaworu can only offer so much solace as Shinji learns the (nearly)entire truth about Third Impact and his father's plans. Kaworu urges Shinji to move forward, but are they actually moving in the right direction?

Evangelion 3.0 appears to work best in its smaller moments (although it delivers pretty well on grand action sequences too), but it's too jarring to see how severely Shinji is treated and how abruptly all the responsibilities of the world are dropped upon him. The film seems so intent on sending Shinji over the despair horizon that it seems to sacrifice its writing and much of the cast to do so. Normally I'd flat-out say, yes, this is just a poorly conceived movie - except nagging thoughts in my head said otherwise. I went ahead and watched the film a second time, and those thoughts came out loud and clear:
I think Evangelion 3.0 is a commentary on the Evangelion franchise itself - as well as Hideaki Anno's relationship with it today.
It's well known that Evangelion has always been a very personal project for Anno - being tied closely to his struggling mental state - and I think () that 3.0 is the most unfiltered, blatant statement on the matter. From what I understand, Anno really wanted to do these films; but making them may be proving to be more trouble than they're worth. The Rebuild films seem to have been met with mixed reception - which I suppose is inevitable for any remake of a popular title - and Anno himself stated that work on 3.0 drove him back into severe depression. At this point, Evangelion seems to be plain unhealthy for Anno (), but at the same time, he seems to be stuck in it. I bet fans were delighted to have more Eva when the Rebuild films were first announced, only to turn on him when they were dissatisfied with the results - not unlike how Shinji has Eva-01 suddenly taken away from him in the film. His former friends say, "Don't ever pilot EVA again!!", even as his father says, "You must pilot it". Perhaps Anno and Shinji are walking in the same shoes right now - Eva is what practically defines them now, but does it bring about any good? Would the world be better off without Eva?
The climax of the film is bombastic, intense, and more than a little convoluted, but I think the above sentiments still ring true - Shinji can only act on what is right in front of him now, pushing Eva forward to the inevitable conclusion, regardless of the consequences, even though he really doesn't know what he's doing anymore. He seeks peace, solace, redemption even; but he risks sacrificing everything else to achieve those. In the end, it feels like nothing has changed at all. Hope may not be lost, though. Misato hesitated when Shinji escaped. Asuka drags him out of his cockpit and pulls him towards a new destination. Rei - perhaps an embodiment of Eva within the Eva, follows in pursuit of her own identity. The end is nigh, but it doesn't have to go out in a whimper; Shinji may still have allies to help him through, like Anno himself has friends and family around.

I'm inclined to say that Evangelion 3.0 is the weakest Rebuild film so far. As I mentioned before, most of the characters felt shortchanged, especially with as many newcomers as there were for this film. The animation was generally stellar, but oddly there were a few scenes that were a little too obviously CGI (whereas the first two films were fine meshing styles), and often settings and objects looked over-designed and needlessly absract. I didn't really care for any of the new Eva designs (beast mode=cat was just stupid). Shiro Sagisu fully delivers on music, forunately; I think his score for this film is easily among his best work ever.
I wouldn't say 3.0 is a bad film, though - more like it's a good film disguised as a bad film. I think Anno had a very specific purpose for this film - to make a statement regarding himself and his franchise - and unfortunately that statement came at the expense of other aspects which may have increased the film's overall merit. I don't know if 3.0 entertained me, but it certainly fascinated me; the Evangelion franchise has challenged me intellectually more than any other series/franchise, and I'm honestly pleased to say that Evangelion 3.0 was no different.

I can only wonder, now, where 3.0+1.0 will lead from here.

[tbeasley]

[Rody]

Yeah, I don't know what's keeping Funimation. Maybe they're trying to get the license for the original series and want to release 3.0 simultaneously??

[tbeasley]

[Rody]

Happy anniversary, Eva!
We all know you need all the happiness you can get.

Anime News Network reported Funimation's plans to release 3.33 early next year.

[mr.negativity]

Director Hideaki Anno is working on TOHO's upcoming Shin Godzilla film, but said in April that he is making both that film and the new Evangelion film with all his effort.

[klen7]