EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

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Your thoughts on Neon Genesis Evangelion (the original series)?

OH GOD AWESOME I LOVE IT YEAH
13
39%
It's pretty cool.
11
33%
Feh. You know, whatever.
3
9%
Couldn't really get into, honestly.
3
9%
ANNO, I'LL KILL YOU. ANNO, I'LL KILL YOU.
3
9%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby tbeasley » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:28 pm

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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:43 pm

The spicy takes from young folks watching it for the first time... I'm tired just thinking about it.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby tbeasley » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:35 pm

Was surprised to see this at Barnes & Noble, had no idea it was coming out –
Image
https://www.amazon.com/Evangelion-Illus ... oks&sr=1-3

Which led me down the rabbit hole of other English language Eva books coinciding with the Netflix release…

Aug 27
Image
https://www.amazon.com/Neon-Genesis-Eva ... oks&sr=1-2

Oct 29, with Vol 2 in Mar 2020
Image
https://www.amazon.com/Neon-Genesis-Eva ... X8RZSYTN8A

Anything else I'm missing?
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby Rody » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:51 pm

Oh, those look nice. I still need to buy myself the Chronicle compilation books that came out a couple of years ago.

ANN just published a couple of relevant articles to coincide with the Netflix release:

Hideaki Anno: Before Evangelion
While the ripples of this seminal work have influenced subsequent generations of artists, Anno's profound and multifaceted career extends far past this single show. As a matter of fact, he had already built a reputation as one of Japan's most innovative animators - a talent he fostered quite early in life and would obsess over for decades.


The List:
Get to Know Seven of Evangelion's Angels

What makes the series so evocative all these years later is the emotional core of its characters but beyond that is the amazing world-building. Anno and his team crafted a multitude of interesting angles to approach the show, including monsters inspired by theoretical science and a lot of references to Christian mythos. Neon Genesis Evangelion dabbles in Kabbalah and Gnosticism as window dressing around its larger emotional themes.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:27 pm

Today was the day!

And fans are freaking out about two things: 1) a more literal translation that many are complaining misses the subtleties of the dialogue (and naturally means many iconic lines among the English-speaking fandom are now gone) and 2) they failed to license Fly Me to the Moon for any territory outside Japan, so the end credits music is gone!
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby O.Supreme » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:41 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: ....

Please understand. This is no offense towards you personally but....for fans who gave been *waiting years* to see this, how would they know or care what was new or different?

Sure they could have seen clips elsewhere or heard from other fans, but still...If it's their first experience ever shouldn't they be enjoying it?

I watched about 5 mins. The new dub is awful. I go back to my original thought that anyone who really wanted to see this probably already has, and it's addition to Netflix is of little consequence. It's just laughable that for all the hype, Netflix ended up with sn inferior version of an overrated series to begin with
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:32 am

^ All of the discussion around Evangelion have always been arguments. I remember people arguing with me about Evangelion in high school before I even saw it! I knew that the moment it dropped there would be some immediate kerfuffle, so I was just taking inventory of what kerfuffles have emerged so far!

No doubt there will be many more!
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby O.Supreme » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:43 am

Wow that must have been awful. I'm sorry. Other than my closest circle of friends, who really didn't have strong opinions one way or the other, I never discussed it with anyone really until now...Of course I saw parts of it at conventions when it was first coming out in the late 90's, and then on VHS. I've always been a fan of super robots and mech series, and *heard* of course that NGE had pushed it to the Ultimate Level. Additionally back then, although I knew about more classic anime from the 70's and 80's, during the 90's, and early 2000's it was all about what was current. Older anime releases were few.

Initially I really did try to have an open mind, but the overly dramatic nature, and depression wasn't my style. Additionally, since it draws from Christendom rather than True Christianity, that bothered me, but since the show itself is fiction, I just kind of let that go.

Still, there is no denying it's popularity. It still continues to be played out in Super Robot Wars games to this day. If I could skip those scenarios I would, but sadly it's not an option. It's just that with literally Dozens upon Dozens of Super Robot and Mech Anime shows to choose from, why this one resonates with so many is baffling. It's kind of like when Gundam Wing first came to North America in 2000. Though there were a dozen series an movies that preceded it, and probably more since, Gundam Wing continues to be the one people remember simply because it was *first*. (and technically that isn't even true but I digress) . Now I don't share a dislike of Gundam Wing as much as I do NGE, but I just think some fans need to realize there is so much more out there than just what the mainstream says is cool or popular.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby tbeasley » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:52 pm

Rody wrote:Oh, those look nice. I still need to buy myself the Chronicle compilation books that came out a couple of years ago.

I have them, they're very nice and comprehensive, but there are some supposed typos/translation errors. That didn't deter me from enjoying them though, I'll be revisiting them after doing so with the series on Netflix.

Here are reviews for each with the 'mistakes' noted -
https://literaryeagle.tumblr.com/post/1 ... ere-is-the
https://literaryeagle.tumblr.com/post/1 ... ew-here-is
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby Garasharp K7 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:08 pm

O.Supreme wrote:It's just that with literally Dozens upon Dozens of Super Robot and Mech Anime shows to choose from, why this one resonates with so many is baffling. It's kind of like when Gundam Wing first came to North America in 2000. Though there were a dozen series an movies that preceded it, and probably more since, Gundam Wing continues to be the one people remember simply because it was *first*. (and technically that isn't even true but I digress) . Now I don't share a dislike of Gundam Wing as much as I do NGE, but I just think some fans need to realize there is so much more out there than just what the mainstream says is cool or popular.


Oh man, I hear that! I remember a lot of the online chatter back then about how great those shows were, along with the odd comment stating all that old '70s and '80s stuff was lame in comparison.
I know everyone has their preferences and opinions, likes n' dislikes and all that, but I do get a little irked when I see some snide, snarky, snobby so-and-so proclaim Evangelion as the be-all/end-all of the giant robot genre. Anything that came before it was inconsequential, and anything after it no more than a pale imitation. (never mind that Eva had its' influences too) I've seen a few similar comments about Gundam and Gurren Lagann as well.
Yeah, I get that not everyone's going to be interested in the older stuff, but I've often come to appreciate certain shows a lot more when I discover what influenced them - and that just leads to checking out more series I might've missed otherwise. To be honest, I just get a little tired of hearing "that's an Eva clone", "they just ripped off Getter Robo" or "Pacific Rim is a live-action Evangelion" more than a few times. :wink:

Now with all that said, when I got back into anime in the early 2000s I used to be just as dismissive of the current stuff as others were of the older shows. There were a few exceptions like The Big O, or updates like Mazinkaiser, Cyborg 009 and Tetsujin 28, but I mainly stuck to the old shows and ignored the rest. I would eventually get around to checking out a lot of those '90s and 2000s shows though. A few of 'em are now favourites of mine. It's hard to imagine I didn't like the '90s art style back then - I honestly love it now.
I'd eventually give Evangelion a chance too. I was put off by all the ballyhoo surrounding the show - all that hype and hooplah about how edgy and deep it was, or how soul-shatteringly depressing it was - didn't sound like my cup of tea at all. I enjoyed the series at first - at least up until the last third of the show, then it felt like it lost the plot. The story, characters, even the show itself just fell apart at the seams. Even after watching the movies I was left frustrated and confused with the whole thing. Not just a "what the hell did I just watch?" reaction, but I actually felt like I wasted my time watching it - series, movies and all. I gave it another go a few years later, and I felt the same way. Spike Spencer's hidden rant on the last dvd echoes my feelings on the show pretty well. :)

But strangely enough, I don't hate the show. There were some things I liked - the '90s aesthetic, character and robot designs, music, and the story was pretty interesting before it went off the deep end. I've still got the dvds. I may give it another look some time in the near future. Hopefully I won't have the same reaction as I did last time. :) I did like the first two Rebuild movies though.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby H-Man » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:58 pm

I'd only seen one episode (on Toonami in 2003) before this came to Netflix. After having binged it this weekend all I can say is I thought it was just as good as all the praise I'd ever heard. I think why it worked for me is because it's so different than all the similar concepts that had come before (at least in my experience, I'm not an expert on anime) because it's much more about depression than robots. I think there will likely be a legion of new fans of the show in 2019 because of that angle.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby Moonlight SY-3 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:24 pm

I watched the original on TV in real time here after having been in Japan a couple of years (I've been here since 1993), and although I dug the concept and enjoyed the EVA/Angel action, I was not a big fan of the "drama." That was me 24 years ago...maybe I should give it another go and see if the "matured" me can appreciate it more. I've also never seen it in English. I did like the recent theatrical releases.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:48 pm

O.Supreme wrote:Wow that must have been awful. I'm sorry. Other than my closest circle of friends, who really didn't have strong opinions one way or the other, I never discussed it with anyone really until now...


It wasn't that bad, in fact it was a bit fun. These arguments were spirited but harmless, nothing like the knock-down-drag-out vitriol that seems all so common in nerd circles today.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby Rody » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:08 pm

Taking out "Fly Me to the Moon" is probably akin to removing Ifukube's themes from King Kong vs. Godzilla - except in this scenario, we all grew up with the Japanese soundtrack only to see the film re-licensed with the stock music inserted instead. Is it a deal-breaker? Probably not, but it's a jarring change all the same. :|

As for the new translation, it sounds like Khara themselves oversaw the new subtitles, so maybe the old ADV translations were never quite accurate anyway? Or the new ones are at least more literal. It sounds like most of the outcry is just about Shinji's and Kaworu's relationship being a little more ambiguous than previously thought, anyway.

Japanese Fans, Official Translator Weigh in on Netflix Evangelion English Subtitle Debate
Japanese fans have also taken note of the debate after Japanese news outlet J-Cast reported on the issue. Dan Kanemitsu, the translator of the Netflix Evangelion subtitles, told J-Cast, "This translation was made from the ground up. It has no connection to the previous translation at ADV."


Jomei/Jimpluff has some posts and notes on the subject too.


I get the impression that Evangelion's popularity often has little actual to do with the mechas and monsters, and much more to do with the themes and philosophy the story tackles. Of course, anyone looking for a good mech vs monster romp is bound to be a little disappointed. The presence of giant monsters is what finally drew me in to the show, and I admit I was a bit underwhelmed after a few episodes with how unorthodox the Angels appeared for daikaiju (something I've come to appreciate a lot more since). I guess it's kind of like how the original Mobile Suit Gundam was popular for its suits, but resonated with fans mostly because of its characters and war commentary.
@Garasharp K7, my reaction after finishing the show was very similar; yet in spite of that, and my increased frustration after seeing End of Evangelion, I couldn't help still being fascinated by the series. I think I understood that the show was really trying to SAY something, but I just wasn't capable of following it all. It was a very different program than what I was used to watching, and for better or worse, I think it had a great effect on how I watch anime as a medium.

I really look forward to starting it again soon, since it's now been almost 7 years exactly since my first and only viewing of the show!
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:01 am

Rody wrote:Taking out "Fly Me to the Moon" is probably akin to removing Ifukube's themes from King Kong vs. Godzilla

I watched the entire show many years ago and I literally have no recollection whatsoever of this song being a part of it.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:09 am

^^ Yeah, that's basically the criticism not just of a few individual lines but of the new translation in general; that it's super literal (at the studios request). A good translation sometimes has to make the subtext read more clearly as text because non-native speakers won't be able to pick up on it, deal with idioms and turns of phrase, and just make everything read naturally and smoothly in a different language. A good translation is essentially rewriting the entire thing to give the impression of the original instead of attempting to simply port the original language into another one.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby O.Supreme » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:40 am

^I appreciate that as well, even though I'm not a fan of the series. That's what I tell my daughter all the time (she watches TV with subtitles often, even when spoken in English). I tell her she cant do that with Anime because the English dub will never match the subtitles. A Good dub will translate the Message more than the words, whereas, subtitles are pretty much telling you the words the characters are speaking.

jellydonut25 wrote:
Rody wrote:Taking out "Fly Me to the Moon" is probably akin to removing Ifukube's themes from King Kong vs. Godzilla

I watched the entire show many years ago and I literally have no recollection whatsoever of this song being a part of it.


It only plays during the end credits. Each Episode IIRC (its been a long time) plays the same song, but sung differently, has different instrumental versions, and by different singers. I only ever heard it in English, so I'm not sure if it was sung in Japanese for the Japanese audio. Oddly enough I thought this was some quirky thing ADV did, wasn't aware it was part of the original show.
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Re: Evangelion 3.0+1.0

Postby mr.negativity » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:41 pm

Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Official Teaser trailer Preview 2020 [HD]
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Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 First 10 minutes preview High Quality Sub ENG (Japan + French Streaming Audio)
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io9:
The First Footage For Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Is Here, and It’s Bonkers
Julie Muncy wrote:When it rains LCL, it pours.

Just scant weeks after the original series and its attendant films appear on streaming for the first time, Neon Genesis Evangelion’s rebooted movie series, the Rebuild films, are finally showing signs of life for the first time in a while. (Some background: in 2007, a new four-film adaptation of Evangelion, helmed again by director Hideaki Anno, began with the release of Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone. The third film came out in 2012, and fans have been waiting for the fourth ever since.) The fourth film of the series, titled, for now, anyways, Evangelion 3.0+1.0, just debuted its first footage during a special presentation at Japan Expo in Paris.

The footage, featuring the first ten minutes of the movie, was also livestreamed, and let me tell you all, it is bonkers. Featuring Mari, a protagonist new to the Rebuild series, piloting her Eva in the post-apocalyptic ruins of Paris, the opening moments of 3.0+1.0 are full of ridiculous combat, dizzying visuals, and high-speed technobabble that I don’t understand because it’s spoken in Japanese and subtitled in French. But apparently there’s something about the Vatican—does the Vatican have Evas? What if the Vatican has Evas?

This footage, while stunning, also manages to answer absolutely none of the million questions asked by the previous film, which is disappointing but unsurprising. But on the other hand, there’s some wild stuff with the Eiffel Tower. So who’s to say what’s good or bad.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby O.Supreme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:04 pm

Anno himself has said there will never be any definitive explanation of anything, even with the last film, so that's why I'm completely disinterested.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby tbeasley » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:25 pm

A filmmaker's job isn't to explain but to express.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:49 am

O.Supreme wrote:Anno himself has said there will never be any definitive explanation of anything, even with the last film, so that's why I'm completely disinterested.


So, not a David Lynch fan?
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby O.Supreme » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:42 am

(had to look him up online since I didn't recognize the name...) I saw Dune as a kid ONCE when it first came out on video (probably around 86'), never saw anything else he ever worked on since none of it is of interest to me.

tbeasley wrote:A filmmaker's job isn't to explain but to express.

A filmmaker can to whatever they like. I as a consumer can conversely choose or like to dislike it.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby lhb412 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:52 pm

^ Mine was a little joke, because you see; David Lynch favors things like surreal imagery and mood (as well as a positively goofy sense of humor) making up the bulk of his films, often making a literal interpretation of what is going on somewhat difficult. What makes this extra unique is that Lynch at all times resists explaining anything about his work, at least when it comes to questions that ask him to decipher the pure meaning and intent of anything.
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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby tbeasley » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:13 am

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Re: EVANGELION FRANCHISE DISCUSSION

Postby Rody » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:46 am

Well, I just finished my viewing of the series on Netflix tonight. It's been a pleasure to finally watch the show through an official channel (minor issues notwithstanding), and to revisit it for the first time since my original viewing some 7 years ago.
Despite my frustrations with the show back then, NGE still kept me fascinated for a long time; I think I can say with confidence now that I do like the show, and I appreciate a lot of what it does. Back in 2012, I was coming from a pretty naive and opinionated place about television, so I simply wasn't prepared for a lot of what the show presented. Alongside the aspects of Anno's own depression, who's influence on the show is established knowledge by now, I've seen communication described as the main theme, and I think that's apt. Yes, there are mecha and giant monsters; yes, there are sinister sci-fi mysteries and government shenanigans; but ultimately, the underlying core of this series is its cast of broken characters trying to maintain or repair themselves amidst circumstances too big for any of them. I can also appreciate how flexible the show can be - there are basically four "arcs" to the show's mood, and while that confused me before, I enjoy that variety now. NGE doesn't limit itself to one thing; it knows when and how to be serious or slightly silly.
This isn't to say I compleltely understand it yet, though; the last four episodes still drop a lot of information that's hard to follow, and the final two in particular are surprisingly dense, despite being practically spelled out. Ultimately, everything about SEELE, the Instrumentality Project, etc, had to build to something; but it was never the true focus, so the climax feels somewhat distracted. I can't fault the show too much, though; circumstances were working against GAINAX at the time, and I have no idea how the production/writing process was going at this point in the series. What sort of state was Anno himself in?
All in all, I think it's fair to say that, yes, NGE is a bit of a mess - at least at the end - but it has something earnest to say, and I respect it for that. I also owe it some gratitude, as the first-ever anime series I "officialy", fully watched. For all my confusion and frustration, I think the show did a lot to expand my boundaries and set new standards for what I look for in entertainment; and for the most part, I think that's been a very good thing.

I'll revisit Death and [i]End of[/i} sometime soon.
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