Avengers: Infinity War/Avengers:Endgame (2018/2019)

[O.Supreme]

I haven't watched Agents of Shield in almost 2 seasons (since the end of S3). However each year around this time, there is usually some shoehorned in reference into whatever MCU film is coming out. I mean I know Winter Soldier had a huge effect on the show, but others were just passing references. I just wonder how they will address

[Dr Kain]

How is 2 and a half hours too long? That's perfect for a movie of this caliber. Frankly, the movie was moving at such a brisk pace that it could have been 4 hours and I wouldn't have cared. Anyway, it's nice to see you give a good review to a Marvel film again.

G-Fan, lol.

[Dai]

Back when Infinity War was first announced as a two-parter, I had a pretty clear idea in my head of how the overall arc of part 1 would go. When Hollywood fell out of love with two-parters and they dropped that from the title, I started to wonder if they would condense the plot of both into a single movie and make Avengers 4 something else.



Overall, this was a very good movie that was only let down by feeling overwhelmingly cluttered with characters, and Marvel's iron-clad dictate that almost every character should double as comic relief. Once again, far too many dramatic scenes were undercut by bathos, but at least they shut up and took things seriously when it really counted at the end, unlike Ragnarok. Thanos's looming presence really helped to that end, since he never once wavered from his purpose or let a wise-crack undercut him. The movie handled the personal cost of its conflicts better than I expected, but it doesn't quite carry the intimate dramatic weight of Civil War or Winter Soldier. That's unfortunately inevitable when most of the characters are worried about the universe instead of the one thing that matters most to them.

Predictions for Avengers 4:

[Gwangi]

This felt more like "Guardians of the Galaxy III", than an Avengers movie. It had its moments (Josh Brolin really delivers as a bad-ass Thanos), but it lacked the charm of the last couple of MCU features.

**1/2 stars in my Leonard Maltin scale.

[Dr Kain]

[jellydonut25]

[Tom R VanSlambrouck]

Watched this last night with a group of co-workers and I must say it was worth the wait. Pretty damn shocking events too and I'm pretty sure the results where done on purpose just to throw everyone off. Looks like I was wrong about Avengers 4 being secret wars and its going to be more of an Infinity War Pt 2.

Overall I'd give it an 8 out of 10.

[Dr Kain]

[jellydonut25]

I said the 160 minute run time was prohibitive to another theatrical viewing and I stand by that. I have a wife, kids, full-time job, and other interests. Dedicating 4 hours to a movie is obviously something I’m willing to do since yknow I DID IT. But doing it AGAIN? Nah. I can wait till blu.

It’s like you take personal offense to the circumstances of my life...

[lhb412]

Saw it. Pretty good. Not as good as the two most recent Marvel movies (Ragnarok and Black Panther), but the fact that it managed to corral this many superheroes and super teams into a three hour movie that's well paced and doesn't drag? That's a mighty accomplishment, right there.

[jellydonut25]

...you realize Thanos is the...VILLAIN...


...right...???

[lhb412]

^ Yes, but -

[O.Supreme]

A lot of good points here are made. Is Thanos the villain? Absolutely. However, I keep hearing about the "Marvel Villain Problem"...it seems people think there are only 2 choices. The "Mustache Twirling" villain who's simply bad for the sake of being bad, and the other being the antagonist who is so convinced his motivations are right, that he doesn't think he's evil. Thanos falls into the latter camp, as did Vulture, and Killmonger, and that's what the fandom seems to want right now.

Honestly, I don't think any of the MCU villains have been awful, Even Malekith and Ronin. They were fine for the films they were in. But there was an obvious shift with Thanos. In the Avengers Post-Credit scene, obviously they were thinking more along the lines of comic-accurate Infinity Gauntlet Thanos "Courting Death" and all that. That all changed I'm sure when the Russo's came in, and wanted a more compelling story (which is of course subjective but I digress...).

[Dai]

[lhb412]

[Benjamin Haines]

[lhb412]

[angilas]

[Dr Kain]

[lhb412]

^

[jellydonut25]

Yeah, MCU Thanos is a pretty wide step sideways from comics Thanos.

That's not a bad thing (or good thing). It's just a thing. He's not very comic accurate.

[angilas]

^in either version he’s the mad titan for a reason. His plan doesn’t have to make complete sense because he’s legit crazy. In the comics his rival at love is Deadpool for death’s sake. Here his issue is
It would help if it were completely logical but even the “most logical” villain, killmongers plans had some holes in them and it was a lot to do with his passion and conviction he was right.0

[jellydonut25]

I just...can't get behind the thinking that his plan needs to make logical sense, or he should have considered alternatives or something.

HE'S THE VILLAIN.

Yeah, the Joker also SHOULDN'T have put bombs in a couple boats and threatened to blow up everyone, because it's a bad thing to do to people...that's why he's THE VILLAIN.
Loki SHOULDN'T have tried invading New York and taking over the world....but he's THE VILLAIN.
Ultron SHOULDN'T have wanted to drop a meteor on the Earth and blow everyone up like the dinosaurs...but he's THE DAMNED VILLAIN.

Why does the villain of a story need a plan that makes logical sense? Or have to have motives that we agree with? He's a crazy person who's willing to commit unspeakable acts in service of yet another unspeakable act because he believes his way is the only right way to do things....that's what being a villain IS.

[canofhumdingers]

I agree with Jelly here, and would even take it a step further. I didn’t think Thanos was as great a villain as everyone else seems to think. The portrayal is quite good (acting, dialogue, etc.) but he suffers the same problem as Killmonger for me. They try too much to make him sympathetic and rationalize his evil plan.

For me, the best bad guys are not the guys who truly believe they are right (no matter how crazy they have to be to be convinced). It’s the guys like the Joker, or (original, before-the-prequels) Darth Vader who do awful things because they WANT to. They don’t care that it’s wrong. That’s what makes them SO evil. And so much more fun to root against.

I think marvel actually did a great job with vulture in Spiderman Homecoming because he starts out as a sympathetic character with realistic and even arguably “right” motivations. But he makes a shift. He realizes what he’s doing is wrong and he embraces it, because screw everybody else, I’m gonna do what I want and get what I want! He becomes a true villain.

[O.Supreme]