Superman: The Man of Steel

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Superman: The Man of Steel

Postby mr.negativity » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:13 am

From Super Hero Hype: Warner Bros. Confirms Superman Reboot
Just a few days after this articlewas posted, Warner Bros. Pictures Group President Jeff Robinov has told The Wall Street Journalthat the studio is going to be reintroducing Superman. We assume this will be similar to how Louis Leterrier's The Incredible Hulk was a reboot of Ang Lee's Hulk. Here is what the article says:

Warner Bros. also put on hold plans for another movie starring multiple superheroes -- known as "Batman vs. Superman" -- after the $215 million "Superman Returns," which had disappointing box-office returns, didn't please executives. "'Superman' didn't quite work as a film in the way that we wanted it to," says Mr. Robinov. "It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned." "Had 'Superman' worked in 2006, we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009," he adds. "But now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."
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Postby MouthForWar » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:20 pm

Even though I liked Superman Returns, I really do think this is the best idea. That movie made a lot of bad decisions with the character and it would be hard to erase what it did in a sequel. Best to just start fresh. That said, I don't want another origin story. Donner did that perfectly.

I say go with a good, kick ass Doomsday, Darkseid, or Brainiac arc.
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Postby The Shadow » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:37 pm

I'm glad the next Superman film will disregard Superman Returns; hopefully the next movie will feature a villain other than Lex Luthor. I'd like to see Metallo on the big screen - with just minor tweaking his original origin [Silver Age] would make a great basis for a movie.


Unfortunately, that article also talks about WB wanting to make future DC films "dark" like the BB & TDK. Not a good idea - for characters like Batman that can work, but not Superman. Singer tried making a "dark" Superman man movie [both figurative and literal, (EG the SR uniform)] with Returns and it doesn't work.
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Postby ryuuseipro » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:59 pm

The Shadow wrote:Unfortunately, that article also talks about WB wanting to make future DC films "dark" like the BB & TDK. Not a good idea - for characters like Batman that can work, but not Superman. Singer tried making a "dark" Superman man movie [both figurative and literal, (EG the SR uniform)] with Returns and it doesn't work.


That's what I was afraid of all along.

Since The Dark Knight is the second highest grossing movie of all time, it'll have an effect on all superhero movies. Corporations decide that since that movie is so successful, all superhero movies must be dark, because Batman is the perceived most popular superhero ever (disregarding the fact that the majority of people who saw The Dark Knight saw it for the late Heath Ledger, and not Batman).

Just like after Batman (1989) was popular, all superhero movies, including The Shadow and The Phantom, were just lame ripoffs of Batman, right down to the music, "dark city" settings, etc. History may repeat itself, unfortunately. Everything's going to be turned into a lame Batman ripoff, because to the corporations, Batman sells.

They'd better have common sense and NOT make Superman dark and tormented. It will work against the character. It's already bad enough that Jon Peters, Tim Burton, Kevin Smith, and many other people working on what eventually became Superman Returns HATE Superman. They're holding back progress, and have no business handling Superman at all.

Meanwhile, Marvel will most probably stick to its guns.
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Postby MouthForWar » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:07 pm

Well let's wait and see. Lets not get too gung ho over these "dark" comments. There have been good "dark" Superman stories. If they do one of the Darkseid arcs (which have gotten pretty damn grim), it could be fantastic. I'm just hoping that Superman will be himself. Unlike most people, I don't care if the film itself is dark or not- I have no preference. I just care that its good and true to the source materials and in the case with most superheros it can go either way and still turn out bad (or good). As long as they don't do what Tim Burton WANTED to do to Superman, everything should be ok.

Like I said, we'll have to wait. The dude also said that it would be "dark within the context of the characters" (or something to that effect), so hopefully they know their limits. I thought Superman Returns kinda tried the "dark" thing and it failed at it (although there are some things I really like in that movie still)

ryuuseipro wrote:It's already bad enough that Jon Peters, Tim Burton, Kevin Smith, and many other people working on what eventually became Superman Returns HATE Superman. They're holding back progress, and have no business handling Superman at all.


As much as I dislike, Kevin Smith, I gotta vouch for him here cuz he LOVES Superman. But yes, Tim Burton and Jon Peters are idiots who never understood the character... I'd even go as far as to say they didn't understand Batman either.

Man... you know what? Forget all this nonsense. Get Richard Donner back. He was to Superman what Nolan is to Batman. THE GUY GETS IT AND GETS IT RIGHT.
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Postby lhb412 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:06 pm

Just like after Batman (1989) was popular, all superhero movies, including The Shadow and The Phantom, were just lame ripoffs of Batman, right down to the music, "dark city" settings, etc.


.... I saw The Shadow on cable the other day. It was the first time I watched it. I thought it was a lot of fun. Probably better than the Burton Batman films in terms of sheer entertainment. Alec Baldwin was hilarious in it.
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Postby lhb412 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:06 pm

Double post!
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Postby Danno » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:04 pm

Uuum, Spiderman is still pretty damn successful and isn't "Dark." Same with Iron Man.

Do all studios base movies off of numbers and not what feels good? Wait stupid question, of course they do. It just blows my mind how out of touch some people in charge are.

Superman Returns was boring, end of story. That's why it stunk at the BO.
Regardless of that, I'd like to see Superman kick some super-villain ass instead of Lex Poopthor.
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Postby MouthForWar » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:13 pm

They really do need to start bringing in other characters from the comics. Some real super villains. That's why Superman 2 is my favorite one. Aside from that, we had The Luthor knock off in the wretched part 3, then Luthor again with Nuclear Man (ugh) in the even more wretched part 4, then Luthor AGAIN in Returns. That's Lex in 4 out of the 5 films.

I'm hoping by "dark" they mean more in terms of the villains- cuz face it Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday, etc. are all pretty brutal villains. Dark as in a more mature and deep film, I'm fine with that (even though Returns tried it and wasn't too great). If they are talking dark as in as dark as The Dark Knight, we have a problem... Batman is a dark character character and the archetype for the "dark superhero"... Superman is not. That's part of the fun when they team up in the comics is that they are both heroes but are as different as can be.

But since they said "dark within the context of the character" then hopefully that means they won't go too overboard with it. Hopefully they'll lose Jon Peters as producer as well. I would like to see Routh come back. I liked him.

And Superman has a pretty good roster of villains: Doomsday, Darkseid, Bizarro, Mytztplik, Braniac, etc. Come ON, man!! And lets see them do what the Dark Knight did and draw the story and scenes DIRECTLY from the comics instead of just using basic concepts. There is so much potential for an amazing Superman movie, but that hasn't been done since Donner was at the helm.
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Postby ryuuseipro » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:33 pm

MouthForWar wrote:
ryuuseipro wrote:It's already bad enough that Jon Peters, Tim Burton, Kevin Smith, and many other people working on what eventually became Superman Returns HATE Superman. They're holding back progress, and have no business handling Superman at all.


As much as I dislike, Kevin Smith, I gotta vouch for him here cuz he LOVES Superman.


Good.

But yes, Tim Burton and Jon Peters are idiots who never understood the character... I'd even go as far as to say they didn't understand Batman either.


Which is why Burton put more emphasis on the Joker than Batman, who comes off as stoic and one-dimensional, and doesn't turn up as often.

I must say that Chris Nolan got it right.

If they do make a new Superman movie, get Jon Peters off of it!

Man... you know what? Forget all this nonsense. Get Richard Donner back. He was to Superman what Nolan is to Batman. THE GUY GETS IT AND GETS IT RIGHT.


Yeah, what's Donner been up to nowadays?
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Postby kidnicky » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:30 pm

Why is everyone in Hollywood suddenly a Wizard reading basement dwelling fanboy? There's no reason for this remakes/reboots/"reimaginings"/sequel to part 2 but ignoring 3 and 4/episode after this movie but before that one-etc.,etc. nonsense.
JUST MAKE IT A SEQUEL TO THE LAST ONE.
The audience shouldn't need to brush up on this month's Wizard or last week's Ain't it Cool News update just to understand where this movie falls,and which prior ones are "canon" and which aren't. SR was boring,so just make this one not boring.
Example:
Darkseid comes to Earth,because he thinks Supes has the antimatter equation so he kidnaps Supes' illegitimate son from Superman Returns. Superman takes him on,gets his ass beat at first,but then digs deep down and beats up Darkseid,and glues him to that wall thing in space. The End.
Or is it??!

There,an exciting movie that's a direct sequel to the last one. It's not that hard to come up with ideas if you have EIGHTY YEARS of comics material to take notes from.


And yes,Kevin Smith loves the traditional Superman,he left the project because the studio wanted the movie to be all Burtontastic and Goreyriffic.
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Postby TheMaster » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:11 pm

The whole attitude represented by the WB exec is what annoys the crap outta me. It reeks of "durhh Batman made money-Batman dark-what we need is dark. Dark characters, dark story, dark chocolate..". Batman succeeded because it was DAMN GOOD. Hollywood is so f'n stupid when it comes to analyzing success or failure. You cant just go and produce more Dark Knights period. To make a directive to explore heroes evil sides is plain stupidity. I guess Superman coming home to see his woman taken, people forget about him and then be stabbed by Kryptonite is .."light"? Or to have an ending where he has a kid and its unresolved? Or the fact that SR made more money than Batman Begins and was critically praised? Its profit margins were low due to having to pay dufusses like Burton and Nick Cage for aborted versions. Not to mention you can go to the well too often. With Marvel making movies outta everything theres only so much interest in superhero movies. Genres die-look at westerns. I can make a huge assumption the next Batman will be anticipated, but not half of all these flicks in production. Very cynical at this point and that WB guy is a moron.
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Postby The Shadow » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:20 pm

I still don't understand why the decision makers at Warner Brothers can't see past Superman and Batman. Okay, admittedly they are starting too - but even then it's not really beyond the primary JLA roster.

Justice League/JL Unlimited was the last tv/movie project that did look beyond the primary JLA roster and even then WB hampered them [no Batman villains after The Batman began] and eventually pulled the plug.
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more Bats?

Postby Xenorama » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:09 pm

you have four seasons or boxsets of Batman villains, how many more did you want to see in the JL? they had plenty of their own great foes without having to add any more of Batman's to the mix. plus you have all that useless "The Batman" stuff to watch now. we've had plenty of Bat enemies, the JLA was perfect the way it was.

aside from not having Hal and Barry in it. :lol:

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Postby Alpha OTS » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:12 am

I thought Bryan Singer was in the process of scripting a sequel to Returns, and I remember an interview with him where he admitted the faults of Returns but mentioned that now with things in place the sequel would be the Superman 2 of the franchise with super villians/battles galore. I was kind of looking forward to it. I may be in the minority, but I like how Returns fits in with Donner's Superman, and that's no accident either since Singer was given an advance look at the Donner Cut of Superman 2.

As far as Donner, if you watch the extras in the Donner Cut of Superman 2(which is AWESOME, btw), you get the impression that he's semi-retired. I also remember reading/hearing that after the ugliness of him being removed from Superman by the $alkind$ that he didn't want to have anything to do with the film again. It took 20 years until he looked at working on the Donner cut, and at rabid fan insistence that he do so. In some of the clips, it seems kind of obvious that he really hasn't looked at the flick at all since then.
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Postby kidnicky » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:25 am

I liked Superman Returns enough that I'd like to see a sequel to it. I didn't think it was a bad movie,it's just that it was Superman vs. Lex Luthor with kryptonite. You can't expect people to keep being excited about that same scenario over and over again.

LOL@Alpha Trion avatar!!! That's awesome.
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Postby mechagigan » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:45 pm

Um, we already had a dark Superman movie.

Image

:lol:
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Postby mr.negativity » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:38 pm

From MTV: Should Superman Go Dark? We Ask Kevin Smith, Jeph Loeb And Other Comic Creators
[quote]Last week, Warner Bros. announced that they would be making some major changes with their film franchises based on the rampant success of “The Dark Knight.â€
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Postby mr.negativity » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:38 pm

From Superman Homepage:
Industry Reactions to Superman Reboot News
In light of the recent announcement from Warner Bros. that the Superman film franchise would be "reintroduced", the Superman Homepage contacted various Superman related identities to get their reaction to the news.
Greg Rucka (writer at DC Comics) said, "Hmm...well, yeah, I think a reboot is a good idea at this point. While there are elements of Returns that I thought worked quite well, the film utterly failed, in my opinion, to demonstrate why Superman is, frankly, the best of the best. And there's the tiny little problem I have with making any kind of Superman movie that you can't bring an 8 year old to see, let alone a 10 year old. Batman? Sure, PG-13 all the way. But Superman, especially as a film, needs to be something that both kids and adults can enjoy -- in many ways, it goes to the core of the character, his universality. So I don't think a reboot is a bad idea -- as long as we don't end up with a take on the material that has Kal getting his power from a special suit, or that turns Doomsday into his long-lost brother."

As for whether Rucka could see himself writing the script for the next Superman movie, "Oh hell yeah! Will it happen? I can't imagine it. But damn, I'd be there in a micro-second, no question."

Jack O'Halloran, who starred as Non in "Superman: The Movie" and "Superman II", says the decision to reboot comes down to money. "Warner's weren't happy with the returns on Superman Returns." As for who he'd like to replace Bryan Singer if the director decides not to continue on with the Man of Steel, O'Halloran says, "I hope if they are rebooting Superman they hand the reins to Richard Donner. It would be the salvation of the series. Dick has such a passion for the series, the fan base would finally get what they have been waiting for someone with the passion to light up the screen."

Comic book writer Mark Waid told SaveSuperman.com that he thought the reboot was necessary but that he has reservations. "I think it's a good idea - though the idea of making Superman "darker" chills me to the bone. Still, what Batman Begins did for Batman gives me confidence. I have enormous respect for Singer, for Routh, and for all the people involved with RETURNS, I really do - and I'm sorry the sound bites picked up for the MTV piece didn't really reflect that - but as much as I loved RETURNS, and I really did, I grudgingly accept that the general audience thought of it as a misstep and that a reboot is probably necessary."



From IGN: Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

From IGN: WB reboots, but is the Man of Steel RIP?



From Variety:
Figuring out how the iconic DC comic character will proceed is front and center for the studio, which was not entirely happy with Bryan Singer's Superman Returns. Neither were many fans, who objected to the love triangle with a married Lois Lane, as well as her child, fathered by Superman. They also want a mightier and more formidable villain than Lex Luthor, played by Kevin Spacey. Director Bryan Singer, who is currently attached to what was to be a Superman Returns sequel, had promised fanns at Comic-Con to go "Wrath of Khan" on it. If Singer, who has been preoccupied with his upcoming World War II Tom Cruise movie, Valkyrie, can't find a "reboot" that meets Warners' expectations, they'll move on.


Robinov Reveals Warner Bros. Strategy and Superman Reboot
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Postby MouthForWar » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:48 pm

[quote="mr.negativity"]From MTV: Should Superman Go Dark? We Ask Kevin Smith, Jeph Loeb And Other Comic Creators
[quote]Last week, Warner Bros. announced that they would be making some major changes with their film franchises based on the rampant success of “The Dark Knight.â€
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Postby TheMaster » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:34 pm

whats so stupid and clueless about ALL this handwringing about how Superman should be-from "An angry God" to Smiths moronic "punch something" is how the original (78) succeeded. Inspite ofbeing faithful to Supermans truth justice American way character, the story has him defying his father to save Lois. And the sequel has them realizing they cant be together(hell in the donner cut he destroys the fortress himself). NONE of these were comic stories. Ironically Nolan has mentioned the original supes as an inspiration(in terms of verasimilitude). So in a way Dark Knight is part of the genre Supes 78 started. It simply was a good movie and didn't try to placate an audience or take advantage of a trend.
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Postby Alpha OTS » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:25 pm

I can't help but notice that it keeps getting mentioned that the revenue from Superman Returns was dissappointing. A way to easily rectify that is to have a sequel that does what the first movie should have done. That'll regenerate interest in Returns and you can start manufacturing dvd two-packs for the following Christmas.

I sometimes think they're being too quick about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Postby mr.negativity » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:27 pm

Who would like to see direct the "Superman" reboot?
Vote now at Suepr Hero Hype
Right now Zack Snyder is the top choice.
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Postby mr.negativity » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:26 pm

From /film: Mark Millar Plans for New Superman Trilogy
[quote]In an interview with G4, comic book writer Mark Millar (Wanted) revealed his plans for a new trilogy of Superman films, which he would like to be shot back-to-back.

“A director approached me about three months ago,â€
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Postby mr.negativity » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:15 pm

MTV 09/16/2008:
Brett Ratner On The J.J. Abrams' Superman That Might Have Been
JENNIFER VINEYARD wrote:Once upon a time, Bryan Singer and Brett Ratner swapped movies – Brett got the third “X-Men” and Bryan got “Superman,” which in his hands was “Superman Returns” starring Brandon Routh. We all know how that turned out.

But what would have happened if Ratner had continued along his merry way and done the “Superman” he wanted? What would it have been about? Brendan Fraser, who saw the script written by J.J. Abrams, was impressed. So was Ratner, who filled us in on the storyline and casting plans.

“The original movie I was going to be a part of,” Ratner said, “took place on Krypton for about half of the movie. So it was much more otherworldly, and much darker, because there was a civil war on Krypton. You'd get more of the history.”

“The Death of Superman” and the art of Alex Ross.

“That wasn’t just darker, but cooler, in my mind,” Ratner said. “That was what we were going to model the visuals after. When you have to translate it to a cinematic world, it’s a whole different animal, and he’s one of the best Superman artists I’ve ever seen.”

If it’s as dark as Warner Bros. wants for their reboot of Superman , Ratner still has a shot at making it: “Maybe we can go back to it one day,” he said.

But sorry, Brendan Fraser, that’s not a shot for you, too. “I definitely agreed with Bryan Singer that you need an unknown actor,” Ratner said. “I was going to surround Superman with known actors, but it’s important to get an unknown. I love Tom Cruise, but to have someone like him who you see as Tom Cruise would be a mistake.”
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