The Incredible Hulk

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Postby MouthForWar » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:29 pm

TheMaster wrote:Its funny but I think many of us(myself prime among the list) get too "critic-y" like that fat comic guy in the Simpsons. And we can sometimes overlook how awesome many things are. Like Kidnick I remember thinking "geez I'm sick of comic movies", but lets face it, this last summer ruled. DK was to me one of the all time greats, Ironman was plain enjoyable, and Hulk was what a good hulk movie should have been all along. Add to that "Wall-E"(which I think is a fantastic movie period) and we really have had some great movies the last year.(Hell add Cloverfield to the list)


*puts on fat comic book guy shirt*

Don't forget Hellboy 2. I actually liked that more than the two Marvel movies.

The thing about Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk that put them below TDK for me was the fact that they were both incredibly formulaic and both of them had such a similar structure that they just blended together (which could be a good thing depending how you look at it, given the Avengers connection and all). Iron Man and TIH, I knew every single thing that was coming. They felt like most any other superhero movie (only MUCH MUCH more well made- Iron Man especially). TDK had that feeling that anything could happen and anybody could get killed at any time, which made it so much more suspenseful than the others..

Still, I really loved both Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk.
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Postby Jinzo Ningen » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:45 pm

Definitely buy Hellboy II. A truly AMAZING movie! I thought the first HB was OK, but nothing special. This one will blow you away. Great characters, great interplay among them all. Never knew what was coming and loved everything. Wished it would have lasted another two hours - it was that good, IMHO.

DK was too depressing. Expertly crafted on every possible level, but totally joyless - like a really well-planned funeral; impressive, but still a funeral.

Loved Iron Man as much as I loved the original Raiders of The Lost Ark when it came out. Made me feel like a 10 year old boy again.

Hulk was good, but I think Marvel F'd up by messing with the pacing. They should have released it with the "Norton & Leterrier cut" that was so-much talked about. The deleted scenes just reinforced that for me. Otherwise, a solid action flick. A few things I personally would have done differently, but overall much better than the '03 film. Let's hope they learned what they did right & wrong here and roll out Hulk 3 with The Leader and maybe another villain sometime after Avengers hits the theaters.
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Postby mr.negativity » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:07 am

From Variety June 13, 2008:
Incredible Hulk: Setting the Record Straight
Anne Thompson wrote:The real question when looking at The Incredible Hulk--given all the sturm-and-drang in the media about Edward Norton--is what did he contribute to this movie?

Here's the real deal:

Zak Penn wrote the original script, which includes two pivotal scenes from his 16-year-old first screenplay for the Hulk, which was not used on the Ang Lee movie written by James Schamus. Marvel came back to Penn and wanted the two scenes in the movie: Bruce Banner jumping out of a helicopter to the earth below, not knowing whether or not he would morph into Hulk, and a lovemaking scene in a motel where Banner's rising heart rate becomes an issue. Both are among the best scenes in the final movie.

When Marvel approached Norton to do The Incredible Hulk, he initially declined. They asked him to meet with director Louis Leterrier (Transporter) to discuss his objections to doing the movie; there Norton offered some ideas as to where he'd want it to go. Marvel agreed to hire a screenwriter to work with him. This is totally normal. At this point Penn was off the movie.

Marvel realized they didn't have time to hire a new writer and asked Norton to do it, offering him an uncredited producer credit as well. With about two months to go before the movie started filming, Norton did a page one rewrite--knowing that he couldn't do anything radical, because sets were being built, locations found, etc. The entire Brazil sequence was already story-boarded.

So Norton mostly changed dialogue, filled in gaps of motivation and developed character. For example, the scenes in Brazil about finding a serum in the Amazon to cure him, and Banner's emails with Tim Blake Nelson, were Norton adds. Marvel agreed to shoot Norton's script.

The Incredible Hulk filming was well under way in Toronto when the team flew to San Diego to do a Comic-Con panel last July. When the panel moderator asked Norton to address his enhanced role on the film--which was supposed to be revealed on the panel, but not by him--both Norton and producer Gale Ann Hurd recognized that his announcing his own role as screenwriter would play badly. And so it did.

In post-production, when it came time to edit the movie, Marvel wanted a streamlined cut. Norton wanted more of his stuff, some 20 minutes worth. Norton is a serious actor who wants to be cool. Marvel convinced him to star in a movie on which he would have considerable input as writer-co-producer-star. A collision was inevitable. Their heated debate was leaked to Deadline Hollywood. Marvel had final cut, not Norton. He did not get his way. Some 50 minutes of outtakes will turn up on the DVD.

Post-Ang Lee, Marvel wanted the most commercial version of the movie, while Norton wanted something more nuanced.

As for the script, Marvel submitted both Penn and Norton (under his pseudonym, Edward Harrison) to the Writers' Guild; Penn (who had substantial economic incentives to want to win the arbitration) wrote an impassioned argument that Norton had not considerably changed his screenplay. The Guild tends to favor plot, structure and pre-exisiting characters over dialogue. Given the final version of the movie, they gave the sole credit to Penn. (Another early writer was seeking story by credit and didn't get anywhere.)

Interestingly, the reviews have been mixed, 61 on metacritic; some have criticized the movie for being light on character. Here's Todd McCarthy's review and a funny one in The Guardian.

When it came to marketing the pic, Universal's Adam Fogleson talked with Norton about his schedule and what PR they wanted him to do. The studio wanted to sell the Hulk, not Norton, finally--they avoided the traditional print junket in favor of a more superficial Adam Sandler TV-friendly media sell (not opening up to lots of questions about what Norton wanted the movie to be). Norton did Access Hollywood, Jimmy Kimmel (see below), lots of Internet stuff and attended the L.A. premiere. Then, as planned, he went off to Africa for his own purposes--and will do Japan PAs later this month.

This LAT Norton story addresses his image problems, which are substantial. He is seen as a gifted writer and actor, but opinionated and persnickety.

Finally, my sense is that Norton's issues were with Marvel, which misled him into believing that he would have more control over the picture than in fact he did. Norton didn't take his issues to the press. When told about Deadline Hollywood, he had never heard of the blog. He's fine with Universal. Here's EW, with Norton's statement. Whether Norton will play Hulk again remains to be seen.

It's probably time for Norton to take charge via directing. (He debuted with the 2000 relationship comedy Keeping the Faith and has been developing Jonathan Lethem's Motherless Brooklyn as a directing vehicle.) The smartest movie stars--Clint Eastwood, Warren Beatty, Mel Gibson, Robert Redford, George Clooney and others--have figured out how to take control of their careers. Instead of fighting with studios over final cut, they earn it.
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Postby mr.negativity » Wed May 29, 2013 2:37 am

Louis Leterrier, 'Now You See Me' Director, On The Problems With 'The Incredible Hulk' And 'Clash Of The Titans'
Mike Ryan wrote:It's been well-documented that "The Incredible Hulk" was a stressful shoot and "Clash of the Titans" looked stressful. Was something less stressful something that you sought out?
Yeah, you know, the problem on both "The Incredible Hulk" and "Clash of the Titans" is a problem I've encountered since I came to Hollywood. When I arrived in Hollywood, ["Incredible Hulk"] was my first Hollywood movie and I really wanted to work with Marvel and I really wanted to do that movie with American actors. And then they were like, "Oh, welcome, welcome. Great news, Louis. We just got a release date. It's a year from now." I'm like, "Fantastic, we have to go. Where's the script?" They said, "Actually, that's the problem, we don't have a script."

I've started movies without screenplays both on "Clash" and on "Hulk" and that is tremendously stressful, because you have a tendency to overcompensate with effects. You haven't tested it in your head. You didn't run it over and over again and covered all of the plot holes and figure it out. It's a marathon that you sprint. "Now You See Me" was longer and it was a great script to start with.

Even in your other movies, I've always noticed what you were trying to do ...
And fail miserably [laughs].

Well, I wouldn't say "fail miserably," but they were cluttered.
Yeah, it's true. A movie is a sum of compromises until you grow into your own independence. I always try to bring the character and the actor forward. It's very obvious in "The Incredible Hulk." The first half of the movie is really mine and the second half is the studio's expected Hulk movie -- two giants kicking each other's ass.

I never understood for sure what happened there. Did you and Edward Norton get along?
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah. We love each other. He was just with me in New York at the premiere. We really do love each other. I think it was blown out of proportion. It literally was about one scene. It's one scene that still in the movie. It was either the long version of the scene or the short version of the scene. Edward wanted the longer version of the scene and I wanted the shorter version.

Which scene was this?
It was the psychoanalysis scene. It was a very interesting character scene -- to go back to what we were talking about. It was analysis, going into the dark places of Bruce Banner -- very adult themes. It was a great scene and the scene is on the DVD. But also the start of the movie, something I did, which is Bruce Banner walking to the edge of the world to commit suicide, then the Hulk saves him. And the studio said, "There's no way we are starting this movie with a guy putting a gun into his mouth." Which I understand, but then it was informing who this character was and his relationship with his alter-ego. All of that stuff made it deeper, if you will.

"Iron Man" was this fun, poppy thing bound to make a zillion dollars. And we were the other side of a superhero movie. More complex with The Hulk being this complex character -- that's what it was. Edward is a great friend. Marvel is a great friend. There are arguments in every movie.

When people are asking me, because Mark Ruffalo is in this one, who's the better of the Bruce Banners -- both are great; both are fantastic -- but I actually wanted to cast Mark Ruffalo as Hulk and Marvel was like "No, you should get Edward Norton because he's more famous." So you see what I am saying? They are the ones who wanted Edward -- and I was thrilled to meet him and work with him. I wanted Mark Ruffalo. And they were like, "No, no, he just does smart, intellectual movies." Which makes sense, then and there in his career. But that's how I know him. We've stayed in touch and it's why he said "absolutely" when I offered him the part in this one.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed May 29, 2013 3:12 am

When people are asking me, because Mark Ruffalo is in this one, who's the better of the Bruce Banners -- both are great; both are fantastic -- but I actually wanted to cast Mark Ruffalo as Hulk and Marvel was like "No, you should get Edward Norton because he's more famous."


Uh uh... Sure. :roll:
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Re: The Incredible Hulk

Postby mr.negativity » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:22 pm

THR, OCTOBER 07, 2019:
Edward Norton Says Marvel Went Back On Its Word Over Dark 'Hulk' Film
Ryan Parker wrote:Edward Norton wanted a gritty, dark Hulk film in the way of Christopher Nolan's Batman series, and he believed Marvel was on board. Turns out, they were not. The Oscar-nominated actor opened up about his split with Marvel in a New York Times profile published Monday.

When Norton was approached to star in 2008's The Incredible Hulk, he pitched not one, but two films, he told the Times.

"I laid out a two-film thing: The origin and then the idea of Hulk as the conscious dreamer, the guy who can handle the trip," Norton said. "And they were like, 'That’s what we want!' As it turned out, that wasn’t what they wanted."

Still, Norton said he had a "great time" doing the film and got along well with Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige. That was until Feige released a statement in 2010 that said Norton would not be in Avengers and took a shot at the actor for apparently being difficult. ("Our decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members," Feige's statement said.)

"Yeah, which was cheap," Norton said. "It was brand defensiveness or something. Ultimately they weren’t going for long, dark and serious. But it doesn’t matter."

He continued, "We had positive discussions about going on with the films, and we looked at the amount of time that would’ve taken, and I wasn’t going to do that. I honestly would’ve wanted more money than they’d have wanted to pay me. But that’s not why I would’ve wanted to do another Hulk movie anyway."

Norton maintains there was no fight between himself and Feige during production.

"I’m saying that Kevin had an idea of a thing that you could do, and it was remarkable," he said. "Now it didn’t happen to be on a tonal, thematic level what I wanted to spend my time doing."

Norton also recalled his comments during the Comedy Central Roast Willis last year in which he seemingly took a shot at Marvel. He told the Times, he was actually taking a shot at himself.

His joke was: “I tried to be like you. I did a big action movie called The Incredible Hulk. You know what went wrong? I wanted a better script.”

Norton said of the quip, "This is a joke making fun of myself but they’ll turn it into, like, 'Edward takes a dig at Marvel.' No, I’m taking a dig at myself at a roast. People have to grow up."
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Re: The Incredible Hulk

Postby Outkaster » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:21 am

This quote is interesting:

"would’ve wanted more money than they’d have wanted to pay me. But that’s not why I would’ve wanted to do another Hulk movie anyway."
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Re: The Incredible Hulk

Postby mr.negativity » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:08 pm

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/film, November 4th, 2019:
Edward Norton Compares His Original Vision of ‘The Incredible Hulk’ to Prometheus
Hoai-Tran Bui wrote:Before Marvel was the well-oiled machine it is today, it went through a few growing pains. And unfortunately, 2008’s The Incredible Hulk became one of the prime examples of those pains. The Edward Norton-starring superhero movie was notoriously plagued with on-set creative disputes between its star and the studios (the film was a co-production between Marvel Studios and Universal), who clashed over their visions for The Incredible Hulk. While we never got to see Norton’s version, the actor recently elaborated on what his vision for The Incredible Hulk original story would’ve been.

In an interview with the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, Norton revealed that he had quite a mythic vision for The Incredible Hulk. One specific Greek myth in fact: the myth of Prometheus, a Titan who stole fire from the gods to give to humanity, leading him to be punished by being chained to a rock with his entrails plucked out by birds for all eternity. It’s not a comparison most would draw to the scientist who turns big and green when he’s mad, but Norton has a very thought-out explanation:

Edward Norton wrote:Hulk is Prometheus, right? The guy who steals fire from the gods for people but gets burned doing it and is cursed. He’s trying to take the power of nature back out to people and he gets burned. That’s how I thought about it, if we could do something like that, that leans into this guy who thinks he’s going through something good that’s going to help humanity, and he cracks open the back side of God and takes something out that’s not meant to be taken out, and now he’s cursed. That’s what’s amazing, even if the show was silly on so many levels, Bill Bixby was cursed. And there’s something pretty heavy in that, pretty cool in that. I think it was really worth a crack.


Norton’s ambitious vision fits with his darker two-film plan Norton told the New York Times he had originally pitched to Marvel, and which they accepted before it all fell apart. “I laid out a two-film thing: The origin and then the idea of Hulk as the conscious dreamer, the guy who can handle the trip,” Norton said. “And they were like, ‘That’s what we want!’ As it turned out, that wasn’t what they wanted.”

But while it would have been interesting to see if Norton’s version could have panned out, it makes sense why Marvel wouldn’t want to take a chance on such an ambitious vision so early on the formulation of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But maybe they would be more amenable to his mythic ideas now.
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