DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:26 pm

Kaiju_Ultra_Fan wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:
Kaiju_Ultra_Fan wrote:How come Daredevil has a wool stretchy hat pulled over his face instead of his Daredevil outfit?

I'm knee-deep in Ultraman at the moment so probably won't get to The Defenders for a little while, but I'm really curious why he's not wearing the Daredevil outfit.
Notice how Jessica Jones is always wearing a scarf?


ok then why is he wrapping a scarf around his head instead of wearing his Daredevil costume?

I guess I'll figure it out when I watch it. Hope The Punisher puts in an appearance judging by that featurette.


Spoiler Below:
He's not Spider-Man, he doesn't carry his costume with him.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Kaiju_Ultra_Fan » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:46 pm

ahh, I suppose that makes sense. I was looking at them as a group like The Avengers or Justice League I guess.

I should probably make time to watch this series soon. It's only 8 episodes so that's not too much of a time commitment.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby klen7 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:34 am

The eight episode run (vs 13) helped really tighten this show up over some of the other series. Other than one thing in the finale
Spoiler Below:
which is symptomatic of the problem with the big 2 in general- both on the page and on the screen
i really enjoyed this. The series made me appreciate Luke Cage and Iron Fist a bit more than their respective series did. Jessica Jones and Daredevil were both great as was Stick, although I wish Trish and Karen got bigger parts. I'd say the Netflix universe continues to be my favorite of any of the comic book multimedia universes currently ongoing. overall Marvel still plays it safe - which in my book is where most MCU films stumble as well

Currently i'd rank the series
DD s1
JJ
DD s2
Def
LC
IF

but even the last place ranking i'd rank above most of the DCU and parts of the MCU
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:24 am

What do you mean by playing it safe? Marvel has been doing all kinds of new things in their movies and TV series.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby klen7 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:16 pm

The final scene of the Defenders:
Spoiler Below:
Death is still meaningless. All the mourning and gravity of Daredevil's death is undone almost 15 minutes later when he is revealed to have survived
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:38 pm

klen7 wrote:The final scene of the Defenders:
Spoiler Below:
Death is still meaningless. All the mourning and gravity of Daredevil's death is undone almost 15 minutes later when he is revealed to have survived


Spoiler Below:
Did you really expect DD to be dead? And is that your idea of not playing it safe? To kill a character just for the sake of it? What is the big deal if he came back in the final scene of the show or at the beginning of his next season? Dying in the world of super heroes is the equivalent of us calling in sick from work. How would killing off DD make this show progressive?
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:40 am

This place is the only place I'm seeing really overwhelmingly positive stuff. It's cool that y'all are enjoying it but after I felt Daredevil Season 2 was a step down from season 1 and since I feel like none of the Netflix stuff has ever been able to measure up to Episode Three of season 1 of Daredevil, I don't know if I'll ever bother. I'm really hoping my wife feels the same way too, as I tend to watch a lot of the things she watches.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Kaiju_Ultra_Fan » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:05 am

I loved season 2 of Daredevil because of The Punisher.

...actually that's all I remember about Season 2 is The Punisher. :lol:
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:09 am

jellydonut25 wrote:This place is the only place I'm seeing really overwhelmingly positive stuff. It's cool that y'all are enjoying it but after I felt Daredevil Season 2 was a step down from season 1 and since I feel like none of the Netflix stuff has ever been able to measure up to Episode Three of season 1 of Daredevil, I don't know if I'll ever bother. I'm really hoping my wife feels the same way too, as I tend to watch a lot of the things she watches.


What are you talking about? Every message board I go to has positive reactions. There's only been 1 negative for every 10 reviews.

I also disagree about DD Season 2 being a step down. The first season had no business being more than 10 episodes at the most (8 would have been ideal). Season 2 had two stories going on at the same time that helped ensure the show didn't drag on. Yeah, it still could have been doen in 12 episodes, but it was fine at 13. Also, Luke Cage was superior to the first DD season too and needed to ber 15 episodes.

The Defenders is perfect at 8 episodes and is the payoff for us watching the other shows. Stop being a sourpuss and watch it. Not to mention it's not like there is anything better to watch right now other than Game of Thrones. THe CW shows have gone downhill and Better Call Saul and iZombie won't be back until March/April.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby klen7 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:57 am

Dr Kain wrote:
klen7 wrote:The final scene of the Defenders:
Spoiler Below:
Death is still meaningless. All the mourning and gravity of Daredevil's death is undone almost 15 minutes later when he is revealed to have survived


Spoiler Below:
Did you really expect DD to be dead? And is that your idea of not playing it safe? To kill a character just for the sake of it? What is the big deal if he came back in the final scene of the show or at the beginning of his next season? Dying in the world of super heroes is the equivalent of us calling in sick from work. How would killing off DD make this show progressive?


Thats exactly the problem. This has no impact.
Spoiler Below:
it would have been better to have a daring escape rather than a montage of grief followed immediately by a just kidding. In fact they could have done it the exact same way but instead of ending on Murdock alive, end it with Iron Fist dawning the costume (which Danny Rand has done on a few occasions to help Matt out in the comics) - then bring back Murdock in s3... at least then there is some gravity to the situation for the current arc, as it was executed, the death was immediately undone and we are returned to status quo, there is no catharsis, there is no change, the Defenders didnt even need to happen and you can skip straight into the next season of any of the respective series.

All Defenders accomplishes is having Misty Knight lose an arm to a ninja instead of bomb (but the impact of Misty losing an arm is immediately overshadowed in a building blowing up and crushing DD) and the death of Stick (assuming it sticks). The Hand members that die are all newly introduced, so again this arc does not impact the established universes.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:49 pm

You're forgetting that they also
Spoiler Below:
defeated the Hand.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:31 am

Dr Kain wrote:What are you talking about? Every message board I go to has positive reactions. There's only been 1 negative for every 10 reviews.
Everything I keep seeing says "It's...good." Nothing NEGATIVE, but not resoundingly positive and encouraging me to watch. Except here.

Dr Kain wrote: Also, Luke Cage was superior to the first DD season too and needed to ber 15 episodes.

I know more than one person that started Luke Cage and didn't finish or was completely over the show and thought it wasn't good at the end. I never bothered.

Dr Kain wrote: Stop being a sourpuss and watch it.
I can watch or not watch whatever I want, thank you very much. I'm not gonna watch Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage, and Iron Fist just to watch Defenders when I didn't even really like the two seasons of Daredevil I watched THAT much. "Hey, you didn't like Transformers 1 and 2? Well, you should make sure you catch up and watch everything else AND watch Bumblebee too!" No.


Dr Kain wrote: Not to mention it's not like there is anything better to watch right now other than Game of Thrones. THe CW shows have gone downhill and Better Call Saul and iZombie won't be back until March/April.

There are dozens, if not HUNDREDS of things out there that I've never watched that are on "To See" lists of mine, that I'd WAY rather watch than delving into a universe where I would give one of the two things I watched a 3.5/5 (Daredevil season 1) and the other a 3/5 (Daredevil season 2). Many of those things are on Netflix, too.

Again, it's cool people like it, but I'm more or less just done with the Marvel Netflix Universe with Defenders getting "It's...fine" reviews.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:09 am

If you expect 5/5 comic book show, then your expectations are too high. You can't go in expecting every show to be Better Call Saul/Breaking Bad quality. That is unrealistic. Comic book shows just have to be well written and be accurate to the source material. That is the most important thing, and that is what the Netflix shows are. It's one of the reasons I still hate Iron Fist because I hate the character in general. Thus, they get an A from me for accuracy. Now if you ask me about his costume, then I will start ranting. :lol:
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby klen7 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:30 am

^^ I liked Jessica Jones better than the second season of Daredevil. You might want to give that a shot. It works as a detective story in a world where supers exist, so you can enjoy it as a standalone series rather than a "universe" story.

I liked the first half of Luke Cage. The second half really didnt work for me at all. Iron Fist was the opposite, first half felt weaker than the second half. I know a couple people that didnt finish Luke Cage as well, most of them didn't bother with Iron Fist


Dr Kain wrote:You're forgetting that they also
Spoiler Below:
defeated the Hand.

Maybe...
Spoiler Below:
but Gao, Murakami and Elektra are likely still alive since DD survived. I fully expect to see Gao in the next DD and Iron Fist seasons. I don't think you can ever truly defeat an organization like the Hand or Hydra, they'll be back in an arc or two
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Dr Kain » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:13 pm

klen7 wrote:
Spoiler Below:
but Gao, Murakami and Elektra are likely still alive since DD survived. I fully expect to see Gao in the next DD and Iron Fist seasons. I don't think you can ever truly defeat an organization like the Hand or Hydra, they'll be back in an arc or two


Spoiler Below:
Gao is most definitely still alive, but the Hand is still defeated. They lost 4 of its leaders. The only route left to go is for Gao to give leadership over to Kingpin like they did in the comics before he had his total downfall.

As for Elektra, she clearly had no interest in the Hand after she regained her memories, she just wanted to fight DD.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:02 am

Dr Kain wrote:If you expect 5/5 comic book show, then your expectations are too high. You can't go in expecting every show to be Better Call Saul/Breaking Bad quality. That is unrealistic. Comic book shows just have to be well written and be accurate to the source material. That is the most important thing, and that is what the Netflix shows are. It's one of the reasons I still hate Iron Fist because I hate the character in general. Thus, they get an A from me for accuracy. Now if you ask me about his costume, then I will start ranting. :lol:

I don't expect anything. But nothing they've done has grabbed me.

I grade things on a scale, for sure. I mean, do you actually think that I think Mothra vs. Godzilla is a 5/5 the same way that The Godfather is? Daredevil, both seasons combined, gets a 3/5 from me in terms of what it's attempting to do. It hits a little more than it misses but it's not riveting and I don't care about it.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby mr.negativity » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:13 am

VARIETY SEPTEMBER 20, 2017:
Defenders Is Marvel/Netflix’s Least-Watched Series to Date
Todd Spangler wrote:Turns out that as a crime-fighting quartet, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist together may be weaker than they are as solo vigilantes.

“Marvel’s The Defenders,” featuring the street-hero characters, was the least-watched Netflix Marvel original series premiere in the U.S. as measured over the first 30 days of viewership, according to an analysis by Jumpshot, a marketing-analytics firm.

For the comparison, Jumpshot created an index benchmarking each of the Netflix Marvel series against the top-viewed of the bunch, which was “Daredevil” season 2 in March 2016. Following its Aug. 18 premiere, “The Defenders” clocked in with just 17% of the viewership that “Daredevil” season two received in the first 30 days. The study looked at Netflix U.S. subs who watched at least one episode of each series.

Compared with “The Defenders,” the previous premieres of “Iron Fist,” “Luke Cage” and “Jessica Jones” performed relatively equally in the first 30 days, accounting for 28%, 27% and 26% of “Daredevil” season 2’s viewership, respectively. In addition to being the least-viewed of the group, “The Defenders” also had the largest week-over-week drop in viewership, declining by 67%, 48% and 41%, respectively, over the 30-day period, per Jumpshot.

Netflix doesn’t release viewing data, leaving industry players to rely on estimates from third parties. But execs from the streaming-video company have routinely questioned the validity of attempts to gauge consumption on its global platform.

Moreover, Netflix evaluates the full performance of its content on its VOD service over a longer span than just 30 days. But the initial consumption of a series is often a good indicator of its long-term performance, and it’s worth noting that “The Defenders” showed a significant drop in viewers in the first month on the service.

The eight-episode miniseries “Marvel’s The Defenders” tells the story of Daredevil (Charlie Cox), Jessica Jones (Krysten Ritter), Luke Cage (Mike Colter) and Iron Fist (Finn Jones), who reluctantly band together to save New York City from criminal mastermind Alexandra Reid (Sigourney Weaver).

Why did “The Defenders” mashup get a colder shoulder than its predecessor series? One explanation may be that each of the individual street heroes appeals to different kinds of viewers, at least among Netflix members who had never watched content tagged as in the “superhero” genre before.

According to a Netflix news release, one-eighth of the viewers for the Marvel street-hero series were new to the comic-book genre. Among this group of newbies, “Daredevil” viewers gravitate toward storylines featuring antiheroes and moral ambiguity; “Jessica Jones” attracted those attuned to “sharp humor and dark crime”; “Luke Cage” watchers tended to prefer stories about “dangerous worlds and complex consequences”; and “Iron Fist” drew in fans of coming-of-age tales.

For the data on Netflix originals, Jumpshot looked at the viewing behavior and activity of the company’s U.S. members. The San Francisco-based company analyzes anonymized click-stream data from a panel of more than 100 million internet consumers, amounting to some 160 billion individual data points per month. The data excludes viewing that occurs on connected-TV platforms or Netflix mobile apps, but Jumpshot says its benchmark analysis reflects aggregate viewing on the platform.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:33 am

mr.negativity wrote:Defenders Is Marvel/Netflix’s Least-Watched Series to Date

After everything I heard about Luke Cage and Iron Fist, this doesn't surprise me.
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Re: Netflix's DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby mr.negativity » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:15 am

/film November 9th, 2017:
No More New Marvel Netflix Shows; Disney Wanted to Buy Fox to Compete with the Streaming Giant
Chris Evangelista wrote:If you enjoy watching Marvel shows on Netflix, you might want to sit down for this: in the future, new Marvel shows will air on Disney’s in-development streaming service, leaving Netflix in the dust. This is all part of a larger plan Disney has to compete with Netflix, which included their as-of-now dead deal to purchase a large chunk of 21st Century Fox. The bottom line: the era of Marvel Netflix shows is nearing an end.

When Disney revealed they were planning on creating a new streaming service of their own, it seemed almost a given that they would start producing their own original content for it – which they later confirmed they would indeed be doing. But what about Disney produced content that already exists on other streaming services? Namely, the Marvel shows that are so popular on Netflix? It looks like Marvel’s Netflix days are numbered. A report in the Wall Street Journal confirms that future Marvel shows will play exclusively on Disney’s streaming service. There’s no word yet if the current Marvel Netflix shows – Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, The Defenders and the upcoming The Punisher – would make the jump from Netflix to Disney’s service, but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened.

The WSJ story also confirms that Disney’s as-of-now stalled plan to buy a large chunk of 21st Century Fox was tied directly to their goals of trying to compete with Netflix. “[W]e’ve turned our attention to the one platform seeing growth challenges,” Disney Chief Strategy Officer Kevin Mayer says in the article. “That’s the television platform.” The Fox deal would’ve given Disney control of a large portion of Fox’s TV shows, which Disney would’ve then presumably moved over to their upcoming streaming service. Mayer also says to think of the Disney streaming service “not an anti-Netflix move, but a pro-Disney move.”

Disney is clearly determined to come out ahead here, but the transition isn’t going to be cheap or easy. In addition to having future Marvel shows premiere on their streaming service, Disney is also planning to pull all of their movies currently on Netflix and bring them over to their own streaming platform. The WSJ states that this movie is going to end up costing Disney $300-million-plus a year, but Disney seems confident their gamble will pay off with fans making the jump over to their new service.

Netflix, meanwhile, is continuing on their own quest for entertainment domination, with plans to spend at least $8 billion in creating original content for 2018. That’ll continue the head-start they already have on Disney, who plan to debut their streaming service in 2019.
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Re: DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby mr.negativity » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:55 pm

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Re: DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby Gentleman » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:59 pm

Season 1 of DD is one of my favorite Marvel productions yet. Season 2 would have done better if they hadn't fallen into the deadly sequel trap of trying to do too much at once, namely running the Punisher and Elektra story arcs at the same time. Either one would have been a winner, but together they felt bulky and poorly stitched together. Plus, they lost tons of my goodwill when they
Spoiler Below:
botched Elektra's death. That's one of DD's defining moments, and to have it happen the way it did, without Bullseye, was a huge, huge waste.
Defenders never gelled for me, but I have hopes that Season 3 will pull it all together.

BTW, halfway through Cage I thought it was over, only to find out how far out I was. I never finished it, skipped Iron Fist, thought JJ was a slog that went on far too long, and haven't gotten to Punisher yet. Just to be clear where I stand for the Netflix universe.
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Re: DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby klen7 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:38 pm

i'm looking forward to S3 of DD, but still haven't touched the S2s of LC or IF. I did enjoy Punisher and S2 of JJ, so i just need to find the time
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Re: DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby O.Supreme » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:09 am

I know these shows basically exist independent of the MCU, but still are technically part of it. I haven't watched any since S1 of DD (just not my thing)...but have they progressed to the point of Infinity Gauntlet yet?
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Re: DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:56 am

O.Supreme wrote:I know these shows basically exist independent of the MCU, but still are technically part of it. I haven't watched any since S1 of DD (just not my thing)...but have they progressed to the point of Infinity Gauntlet yet?

I think at this point you can really consider the Netflix stuff and the MCU to be essentially independent.

The rift between Marvel's film division and their TV division is actually significant, and the Netflix shows to date have done little more than just barely whisper about the events of the mcu in ways that a casual viewer wouldn't even pick up on.
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Re: DAREDEVIL & THE DEFENDERS

Postby klen7 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:23 pm

it seems like they casually mention the events of Avengers 1 a few times - but nothing beyond that, and mostly in a way you could miss
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