TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue May 26, 2015 12:59 am

jellydonut25 wrote:Image


I laughed at this way harder than I should have.

I can still remember the heartbreak as a 13 year-old kid watching it in the theater - my general thought was, "that's not Godzilla..."

The problem is that the monster design is awful, the characters are a complete mess, and once "Godzilla" shows up everything becomes dull and boring...mainly because the monster sucks. I will say I like some of the practical effects used in the film as opposed to all CGI, but this movie is AWFUL on pretty much every level.

Oh yeah, GINO takes a pregnancy test...what kind of defense can anyone possibly muster for this crappy movie?
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby DannyBeane » Tue May 26, 2015 1:06 am

G98 came out 17 years ago. Young impressionable kids who saw it before other Godzillas didnt know any better so they grew up accepting it as Godzilla.That's my explanation I guess. I still think it's garbage though.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue May 26, 2015 1:10 am

I'm sticking with "hipsters" as my explanation. Stuff like "Pregnancy test LOL!" makes them pretend they love it. I'll admit, that is something that could work on a "SO stupid, it's amazing" level, but in the context of the film as a whole, it doesn't work...because the film itself is SO DULL. As has been said, when the monster shows up, it gets boring, and that's because the monster is a weakling, so we don't CARE if it shows back up. There's no tension, there's nothing interesting, and degenerating into Jurassic Park ripoffs is just lazy.


side note: the kaiju design is a cool one, and in all honesty, I would have been capable of accepting it as Godzilla if it ACTED like Godzilla. It would go down as the funkiest, weirdest, farthest departure of a re-design, but I could do it. I still think it's a cool design on its own right, too...but the characteristics of the creature in this film are just awful.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue May 26, 2015 1:22 am

jellydonut25 wrote:side note: the kaiju design is a cool one, and in all honesty, I would have been capable of accepting it as Godzilla if it ACTED like Godzilla. It would go down as the funkiest, weirdest, farthest departure of a re-design, but I could do it. I still think it's a cool design on its own right, too...but the characteristics of the creature in this film are just awful.


I don't think I could accept this as Godzilla even if it behaved like Goji does - the design is just too different for me.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby RaptorG » Tue May 26, 2015 1:36 am

Judging from your comments, I can easily tell that you guys are the same age as me (jelly and Hybrid). The funny thing is that we all walked out of the theater knowing that the movie sucked and we've only been exposed to the Showa movies during the time.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby DannyBeane » Tue May 26, 2015 2:38 am

jellydonut25 wrote:I'm sticking with "hipsters" as my explanation. Stuff like "Pregnancy test LOL!" makes them pretend they love it. I'll admit, that is something that could work on a "SO stupid, it's amazing" level, but in the context of the film as a whole, it doesn't work...because the film itself is SO DULL. As has been said, when the monster shows up, it gets boring, and that's because the monster is a weakling, so we don't CARE if it shows back up. There's no tension, there's nothing interesting, and degenerating into Jurassic Park ripoffs is just lazy.


side note: the kaiju design is a cool one, and in all honesty, I would have been capable of accepting it as Godzilla if it ACTED like Godzilla. It would go down as the funkiest, weirdest, farthest departure of a re-design, but I could do it. I still think it's a cool design on its own right, too...but the characteristics of the creature in this film are just awful.

There are always going to be contrarians that like off the wall stuff to be different, but why couldn't it be spacegodzilla or the 92 Mothra? But whatever, if they want to geek out about a terrible movie then hey, its their money. I will say the GINO design has grown on me the past few years. Not as Godzilla obviously, but as its own unique monster. There is a lot of impressive GINO fanart out there imo. Also his appearance in the comics is pretty cool Image
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby walshiam » Tue May 26, 2015 12:42 pm

I find it amazing that some here still regard this turd worthy of discussion. Simply amazing. There are no redeeming qualities about this film nor will there ever be. The producers tried their best to assassinate the character and the name Godzilla.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Specium Ray » Thu May 28, 2015 12:38 am

walshiam wrote:I find it amazing that some here still regard this turd worthy of discussion. Simply amazing. There are no redeeming qualities about this film nor will there ever be. The producers tried their best to assassinate the character and the name Godzilla.

I can't speak to your colon health, but I find all of my turds are worthy of discussion. Maybe you need more fiber?
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu May 28, 2015 12:45 am

I think there are redeeming qualities and I think that's a big part of the reason why this still draws the ire of so many people. The set up is all solid. It's not great, but it's the setup for a decent, fun 90s-Hollywood Godzilla movie. Then GINO shows up and it's not only not Godzilla, but the movie itself falls apart in terms of pacing, story, and even effects.

Also, it's after GINO shows up that pretty much every character winds up showing his or her true colors as a TERRIBLE person.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu May 28, 2015 8:41 am

I saw it when I was 9, and I was disappointed by Godzilla dying, but honestly I watched the heck out of it on VHS. Then Godzilla 2000 came out and I forgot about GINO entirely. As a 9 year old I was just glad to see something new.

I've seen some GINO apologists, the only new thinking I've had regarding this film is that I'm tired of people shouting "B-BUT GINO ISN'T A GODZILLA MOVIE." It is. It's called Godzilla. It's a terrible movie, but you can't retroactively say that because Toho named GINO Zilla in 04' that somehow the 98' film was never a part of the film series. That irritates me almost as much as GINO apologists.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby RaptorG » Thu May 28, 2015 9:14 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:I've seen some GINO apologists, the only new thinking I've had regarding this film is that I'm tired of people shouting "B-BUT GINO ISN'T A GODZILLA MOVIE." It is. It's called Godzilla. It's a terrible movie, but you can't retroactively say that because Toho named GINO Zilla in 04' that somehow the 98' film was never a part of the film series. That irritates me almost as much as GINO apologists.


Gino apologist wont listen? I got just the thing to help you. All you have to do is post these comments from Keith Aiken. Gino is and will always be Godzilla, never Zilla.

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby GFan » Thu May 28, 2015 12:54 pm

RaptorG wrote:I no longer hate this movie as much as I did back then but the one thing that I can never forget is the many phases that I went through for it (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only Godzilla fans during the 90s that had it). At best I recall it like this:

Phase I: Denial
That one feeling of thinking you weren't sure if you liked the movie or if you did. You try to defend and justify your negative emotions.
Phase II: Anger
You start getting angry from questioning yourself more even though you knew you didn't like it.
Phase III: Submit/acknowledge
You then admit that your original feelings of trying to say the movie was good is false. You knew the movie was bad and you came to accept it as crap/garbage.


Yep. Saw it twice in theaters, watched it once after buying it on (widescreen!) VHS. Then...

... sh*t, I can't remember if I watched it anymore than that.

I went through a similar thing with Buena Vista's terrible HITCH-HIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY movie. I hated that as much as I hated GINO, yet also saw a second time in theaters before fully 'submitting.'
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby kent » Sat May 30, 2015 6:18 pm

oh, f*ck it: People who like the 1998 film are a very small select group of whackjobs.


And I, for a few years, wondered why I didn't get re-involved in forums... :?
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby klen7 » Sat May 30, 2015 8:01 pm

Saw this on bluray for the first time...it didn't do the CG any favors. Otherwise the practical shots look fantastic. I still really dislike the nest plot, but I'm get more enjoyment from this than most of the Heisei flicks.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun May 31, 2015 12:41 am

kent wrote:
oh, f*ck it: People who like the 1998 film are a very small select group of whackjobs.


And I, for a few years, wondered why I didn't get re-involved in forums... :?

When you take it out of context, yeah, it sounds worse.

It's odd to post nothing for 5 years then take a comment out of context and be self-righteous about it, but if you've got something you actually want to add to the conversation, feel free to join in.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby kent » Sun May 31, 2015 10:30 am

Self-righteous? Hardly. A person isn't self-righteous for pointing out the bad treatment most G98 fans have received from the bulk of the fandom over the years.

Taken out of context? How can one take something out of context when it's clearly stated that those who like the movie are "whack jobs"? If sarcasm was meant to be had, then it wasn't properly displayed. Try explaining how such an obvious statement is taken out of context.

What has always bothered me was that those who enjoy the film are treated as less-than fans by the majority who despise it. There's been the air of exclusivity by those who hate the movie. Either you're with them and you're a true fan, or you like the movie and your "fan card" is called into question and you're harassed/bullied. Try being someone who enjoys a film and then is consistently ridiculed by fellow fans for 17 years and you'll understand. I've said my piece on the film in earlier posts. I felt the need to continue to point out how those who enjoy it are still treated as crap by many who hate the film.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby klen7 » Sun May 31, 2015 11:34 am

I do think in the fandom its popular to hate on this film and Final Wars. Its unfortunate because they not only aren't the worst of the lot, but they introduced a number of fans to the series.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby kent » Sun May 31, 2015 12:01 pm

klen7 wrote:I do think in the fandom its popular to hate on this film and Final Wars. Its unfortunate because they not only aren't the worst of the lot, but they introduced a number of fans to the series.


It does seem to be a popular thing in the fandom. I see it often in the various Godzilla/kaiju groups on Facebook where people will occasionally post a G98 related post to simply yuck at it and spew bile all over it. Then anyone who comes along and states they like the film, they're quickly called into question. Outside of the horrible treatment many get for liking this film is the fact that those who really hate the film, and continue to bring it up for the sole purpose of spewing hate over it, refuse to let it go. It's been 17 years. It's understandable you're a diehard Godzilla fan, but to let someone's movie control your life in that way is utterly sad.

What's also head-scratching is that many of the arguments those who hate the movie make are either arbitrary or could also be applied to many of the Toho movies; yet, you won't see many of the fans making such statements about even a fraction of the Toho movies. When this movie is brought into discussion, along with the Toho films, many fans consider it blasphemy that you would even consider this movie to be remotely better than any one of the Toho films.

I don't care if a person hates the movie or likes it. But I hate the fact that so many of us, who enjoy the movie, have been treated poorly by the majority who hate it. We've been the punching bag for those fans to take out their frustrations. Not only is that not fair, it's sad. The fact, too, they can't let it go/ignore it is just dumb-founding. There are some movies I don't like. As a result, I don't go out of my way to talk about them or harass/bully those who do like them. It's a simple thing to do, but many fans refuse to do it.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Sun May 31, 2015 4:02 pm

many fans consider it blasphemy that you would even consider this movie to be remotely better than any one of the Toho films.


Care to explain which of the Toho Godzilla movies this movie is better than? Or how this movie is more Godzilla than the rest of them? Or which of the seemingly blasphemous things that Toho's movies have done that this movie does, that Toho's movies don't get criticized for?

Because I don't remember any of Toho's Godzilla movies where Godzilla gets shot up with normal guns and missiles and dies pretty easily.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby DannyBeane » Sun May 31, 2015 4:04 pm

GINO is to the Godzilla fandom what Batman and Robin was to the Batman fandom. Yes there are some technically terrible Godzilla movies but they are corny in a watchable type of way. They still feature the character of Godzilla, and they were made with child audiences in mind so there has to be considerations made just like with how the 60s Batman was corny but made with children in mind. GINO just wipes out everything Godzilla is as a character and the tone of the film is awful. It can decide whether it wants to take itself seriously or be goofy. The humor falls flat because its poorly written and yet feels out of place when the film tries to be serious. Most of the characters are just awful. Even the worst Toho Godzilla characters usually suffer from just being bland instead of downright hateable. If GINO had decided to cater a 100% to kids and just went full corny, I think it would have been better received or if the film had taken itself seriously like the trailers indicated, it would have been better.

Also if this was the film that introduced you to Godzilla, I can understand the attachment, but try and understand the resentment from older G fans. Godzilla had been known for being a joke for the past 20 or so years prior to G98. This was supposed to be the big American film that legitimizes the character in the same way the X men films and Batman begins legitimized comic book films. Instead it just made Godzilla into a bigger joke. Can you blame people for holding a grudge for almost 20 years in this context? I will say this film is awful probably till the day I die. The only opinion I have on this movie that has changed for the positive is that the GINO design isn't as bad as a monster design as I had originally though and the Godzilla TAS wasn't half bad and fixed a lot of G98's mistakes.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Sun May 31, 2015 4:22 pm

Part of the hate this movie gets, is that the movie was created by people who hated the Godzilla character as well. They hated everything about the character. Not a good way to approach it.

I still hate this movie. It fails at portraying Godzilla as Godzilla, was hyped up as bigger and better than Godzilla, and the cartoony characters from the 70s Showa entries have more energy, spirit, and personality than the cynical horrible people portrayed in Godzilla 98.

The lead up was pretty good. By the time the creature arrives, everything falls apart with the way the characters work. They're much more interested in their own things, than the reality of a giant creature existing and on the loose.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby klen7 » Sun May 31, 2015 8:21 pm

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:Care to explain which of the Toho Godzilla movies this movie is better than?

I find this movie more enjoyable than GRA, Gvs Mothra 92 and GvsSG.

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:Or how this movie is more Godzilla than the rest of them?

Godzilla doesn't fall for a beautiful woman like G vs Sea Monster, Godzilla isn't possessed by ghosts like GMK, Godzilla isn't a magnet like GvsMG

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:Or which of the seemingly blasphemous things that Toho's movies have done that this movie does, that Toho's movies don't get criticized for?
This movie is just as guilty at ripping off hollywood blockbusters as Destoroyah, GvsMothra, FW, GvsKG, etc... awkward pacing like DAM...

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:Because I don't remember any of Toho's Godzilla movies where Godzilla gets shot up with normal guns and missiles and dies pretty easily.
Godzilla dies from a single missile in GMK
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Sun May 31, 2015 8:35 pm

1) Those movies suck. Not much of a hurdle to climb. I'd like to see a debate, and how to frame it as to how this movie is on par or surpasses the likes of Mothra vs Godzilla, Monster Zero, Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla, or Godzilla vs Biollante.
2) All of that, save for GMK occurred during the period of what was Godzilla's character was all about. And even then, GMK portrays Godzilla as what at the core of Godzilla's traits. A giant creature capable of great physical feats against other monsters, and generally unstoppable by military might. Anthropomorphism of Godzilla or NOT to do that, is an entirely different debate.
3)Awkward and dull pacing is not good movie making, it's not blasphemous as to what is within Godzilla's core traits as a movie character.
4)Wrong-o. Godzilla dies after someone drills a hole from inside out of him, which causes him to be destroyed when he tries to breath his ray. He got shot multiple times by missiles and guns from tanks, jets, and ships. Far more than a single missile. Fell to military might? Hardly. Felled by a witty and determined individual.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby DannyBeane » Sun May 31, 2015 8:55 pm

klen7 wrote:Godzilla dies from a single missile in GMK
No a missile opens up a previous wound on Godzilla's neck. Godzilla is killed from the pressure of his nuke breath being diverted through that neck hole. Completely different situation from a regular missile going off and killing him.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby klen7 » Sun May 31, 2015 9:08 pm

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:1) Those movies suck. Not much of a hurdle to climb. I'd like to see a debate, and how to frame it as to how this movie is on par or surpasses the likes of Mothra vs Godzilla, Monster Zero, Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla, or Godzilla vs Biollante.
You asked which Toho films it was better than... i listed several. I never posited it was among the best of the series.

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:2) All of that, save for GMK occurred during the period of what was Godzilla's character was all about. And even then, GMK portrays Godzilla as what at the core of Godzilla's traits. A giant creature capable of great physical feats against other monsters, and generally unstoppable by military might. Anthropomorphism of Godzilla or NOT to do that, is an entirely different debate.
Godzilla's character changes film to film, there are plenty of one-off examples, just like this

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:3)Awkward and dull pacing is not good movie making, it's not blasphemous as to what is within Godzilla's core traits as a movie character.
DAM still gets a pass because of the talent and monsters involved. Again the question was what Toho gets away with that this movie gets beaten up over

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:4)Wrong-o. Godzilla dies after someone drills a hole from inside out of him, which causes him to be destroyed when he tries to breath his ray. He got shot multiple times by missiles and guns from tanks, jets, and ships. Far more than a single missile. Fell to military might? Hardly. Felled by a witty and determined individual.
In GMK he dies from a single wound inflicted by humans. G'98 isnt the only film to kill Godzilla, and it certainly isnt the only one that has humans kill him
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