TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Psycho Soldier » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:31 pm

Rifftrax made this movie much more bearable. Even with them making fun of it, though, GINO is still frustrating to watch. Some of the early stupidity is forgivable - there's enough happening to keep me interested - but as soon as Godzilla starts dodging missiles and running away from helicopters, it becomes irredeemable.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:41 am

MouthForWar wrote:Rifftrax was a blast. The riffs were great. The movie is still awful. I actually think its gotten WORSE since it hasn't aged well whatsoever.

Yeah...it's still and will always be a terrible, TERRIBLE take on Godzilla...but now it's also showing as a terrible 90s film with all the terrible 90s cliches and its casual ripping off of Jurassic Park doesn't help.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Pkmatrix » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:15 am

I went to a showing of the Rifftrax version last week. It's been years since I last saw this movie and, honestly, I'm not sure I would've been able to make it through this showing without the jokes. Various thoughts and things I noticed:

1. Wow, I don't remember this movie being so BORING. The RT guys pointed it out a few times, but this movie has LONG stretches where it forgets its supposed to be a Giant Monster movie and turns into a really bad Romantic Comedy. Say what you will about G'14's lack of Goji, at least it never bored me and still had exciting stuff going on throughout the whole film. This movie stops dead so many times it's just sad.

2. Did the soundtrack HAVE to be JP-ish "whimsical" the WHOLE time? Seriously, even in the action sequences the score sounds like the piece from Jurassic Park when the dinosaurs are revealed. It's all whimsy all the time, and it gets really monotonous after a while.

3. OH MY GAWD, MARIA PITILLO. I remember not liking her character much, but sweet Jebus her performance is just awful and her character the most idiotic/annoying female lead IN THE ENTIRE GENRE. SERIOUSLY.

4. Man, I remember liking Jean Reno's character and performance a lot more than this. I didn't remember the coffee jokes, which were just plain dumb.

5. All of the above being said, does anyone else think we might've had a MUCH better movie had Hank Azaria's character been the hero? He's more likeable than Broderick's character and actually does things. Broderick gets shuffled from set to set, never actually doing or accomplishing anything - he's the hero because the movie had declared that he is the 'charming nice guy' hero. Azaria, meanwhile, is the one who grabs a camera and goes after Godzilla. He's the one who takes the initiative to follow Broderick and discovers the French hideout. He's the only reason Maria Pitillo's character is even involved with the third act. I think a movie that focused on Azaria and Reno would've been a lot stronger.

Then again, that movie wouldn't have been a romantic comedy, which seems to be what D&E wanted this to be. >_>
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Rody » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:58 pm

Pkmatrix wrote:OH MY GAWD, MARIA PITILLO. I remember not liking her character much, but sweet Jebus her performance is just awful and her character the most idiotic/annoying female lead IN THE ENTIRE GENRE. SERIOUSLY.

Yeah, frankly I'm surprised Matthew Broderick gets so much flack compared to her. Granted, Broderick's performance is lackluster, but SHE'S just.... BLECCCCH.

Pkmatrix wrote:All of the above being said, does anyone else think we might've had a MUCH better movie had Hank Azaria's character been the hero? He's more likeable than Broderick's character and actually does things. Broderick gets shuffled from set to set, never actually doing or accomplishing anything - he's the hero because the movie had declared that he is the 'charming nice guy' hero. Azaria, meanwhile, is the one who grabs a camera and goes after Godzilla. He's the one who takes the initiative to follow Broderick and discovers the French hideout. He's the only reason Maria Pitillo's character is even involved with the third act. I think a movie that focused on Azaria and Reno would've been a lot stronger.

Then again, that movie wouldn't have been a romantic comedy, which seems to be what D&E wanted this to be. >_>

I was thinking the same thing the last time I watched it. Animal is a much more active and potentially interesting character.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby walshiam » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:20 pm

I can't believe this turd is still being discussed 16 years later. I'm still trying to forget it.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Jorzilla » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:55 pm

I saw the rifftrax version on Tuesday. While I did enjoy it, I'm ashamed that there are portions of this film that I kind of wish they'd have shut up because I was actually getting into the movie.

The biggest problems with this film, aside from Godzilla's protrayal, are the awful human cast and the baby Godzilla scenes. The Madison Square Garden sequence just went on...forever. Also Audrey is probably the shittiest person in a Godzilla film who still manages to have things go right for her.

The other thing I did...and I couldn't help myself in this regards...was compare this film strengths to Godzilla 2014. This ere is a SLIM margin of what I think Roland Emmerich was able to do well. This mostly has to do with the first 30 minutes, which were executed pretty good (aside from "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" characters). He was also able to do the tease type shots pretty good, but his Godzilla sucked. I think you could take some of the strengths in this film and combine it with the strengths in Godzilla 2014 to have an overall better American Godzilla movie.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby tbeasley » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:28 pm

So it’s a Godzilla movie that is helmed by people that hate Godzilla. I get where peoples’ heads were at though. Emmerich and Devlin had just made a zillion bucks with a sci-fi disaster movie, so why not throw them another one, this time with a marketable character that everybody has heard of? But instead of updating what people loved about Godzilla for a modern audience, like they did for alien invasion movies with Independence Day, they said “"OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" it, let’s see how much we can copy Jurassic Park without pissing off Spielberg.”


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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Psycho Soldier » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:49 pm

So, Dean Devlin is doing an AMA on Reddit, and he's answered a few questions about GINO. Here's the thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments ... ependence/

About G2014:

Well, I never did see the new one, but I was rooting for it. As a fan of Godzilla movies since I was a little boy, I always want a new generation to get excited about Godzilla, so when it was a hit, i was very happy for it.


About GINO's design:

I think some of the backlash on Godzilla was warranted, and some was an overreaction, but I understand, because it is a beloved character and any time you mess with something that is so adored, you risk scorn.

Look what's happening right now to the lightsaber debuted in the new STAR WARS! I've never seen such a reaction!


About flaws in GINO:

There are 2 flaws, for me, in Godzilla, that really hurt the film. And both of those flaws I am responsible for.

The first is we did not commit to anthropomorphizing Godzilla - meaning we did not decide if he was a heroic character, or a villainous character.

We made the intellectual decision to have him be neither and just simply an animal trying to survive. This was a big mistake.

The second mistake was deciding to exposit the characters' background in the middle of the film rather than in the first act (where we always do).

At the time we told the audience who these characters were, they had already made their minds up about them and we could not change that perception.

These were 2 serious mistakes in the writing of the film, and I take full responsibility.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:53 pm

That MIGHT have helped, actually. The pacing of the film is complete garbage.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby XvGojira » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:17 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:That MIGHT have helped, actually. The pacing of the film is complete garbage.


The movie seems have peeked at Godzilla's landing and the first attack. If a good portion of the personal story junk was in the front the movie wouldn't have a large slump in the middle, but a slope upwards with a crap beginning leading to "fun monster mayhem" from then on out.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby tbeasley » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:28 pm

The movie is way too long and so awkwardly structured. Admittedly it does build a nice sense of tension up front, but once Godzilla is revealed to be a skittish, hungry parent the movie falls apart. Repeating actions scenes (they lure Godzilla out TWICE with fish) and a cast of all goofy characters in a seemingly serious sci-fi action/adventure doesn't help either. The egg subplot (or plot, as it becomes) really shows Devlin and Emmerich were more preoccupied making their own creature feature (or Jurassic Park knockoff, whatever) than adapting Godzilla.
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Re: GINO

Postby mr.negativity » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:03 am

Dean Devlin Shares His 2 Biggest Mistakes With 1998's GODZILLA
DEAN DEVLIN:
There are 2 flaws, for me, in Godzilla, that really hurt the film. And both of those flaws I am responsible for.

The first is we did not commit to anthropomorphizing Godzilla - meaning we did not decide if he was a heroic character, or a villainous character. We made the intellectual decision to have him be neither and just simply an animal trying to survive. This was a big mistake.

The second mistake was deciding to exposit the characters' background in the middle of the film rather than in the first act (where we always do). At the time we told the audience who these characters were, they had already made their minds up about them and we could not change that perception. These were 2 serious mistakes in the writing of the film, and I take full responsibility.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:35 am

tbeasley wrote:The movie is way too long and so awkwardly structured. Admittedly it does build a nice sense of tension up front, but once Godzilla is revealed to be a skittish, hungry parent the movie falls apart. Repeating actions scenes (they lure Godzilla out TWICE with fish) and a cast of all goofy characters in a seemingly serious sci-fi action/adventure doesn't help either. The egg subplot (or plot, as it becomes) really shows Devlin and Emmerich were more preoccupied making their own creature feature (or Jurassic Park knockoff, whatever) than adapting Godzilla.

All of this is true. And yeah, the movie still wouldn't be GOOD with those changes Devlin insinuates, but those things certainly would have HELPED at least a little.

Like you said, it's awkwardly structured. re-structuring it would have helped.

It'd still be a raging crap pile that was too long and maybe the Jurassic Park ripping off would feel even WEIRDER, but well, I dunno...LORD, this movie sucks...
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Pkmatrix » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:02 pm

Fixing those two points would've helped a LOT, and I'm glad he at least acknowledges those problems.

That the movie never decided whether we should root for or against Godzilla was a MAJOR problem, and is a big reason why the movie felt aimless and tonally lost. Had they just settled on Godzilla being the villain - which is what they clearly leaned more towards - the whole frickin' story would've changed. The "he's just an animal trying to survive" concept is the only reason we have these repeated sequences of Godzilla fleeing from the military, remove that mindset and I think they would've written something a little more traditionally Godzilla.

As others have pointed out, the movie is actually okay during it's Act One - not good, just okay. It's only after Godzilla's initial attack on New York does the movie fall apart. It's like they didn't know what to do after getting him to New York, so they flailed around for a whole act trying to come up with SOMETHING. Since they didn't want to portray Godzilla as the villain they had no antagonist, since they'd already established the military as the good guys. That's why most of the second act becomes a bad romantic comedy occasionally interrupted by Godzilla fleeing from the Army like the Roadrunner from the Wile E. Coyote. It picks up again in its third act, but by that point the story is so far removed from a 'Godzilla' movie (Godzilla is barely IN the movie after Act 2) it may as well be something else entirely.

They needed to make Godzilla the villain and if they wanted to establish these characters beyond what they were in Act One, it should've been in Act One. By not doing so it straight-up kills the rest of the movie and results in a horrifically BORING package. More than anything else, the movie just is NOT entertaining, it bores the hell out of the audience by about the half-way point and leaves us wondering why we bothered watching.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:47 pm

Pkmatrix, I agree with what you said a few posts back about making Hank Azaria's Animal and Jean Reno's Phillipe the main characters of the movie. By doing that and either reducing or eliminating the characters of Nick and Audrey, this film's story would have been a lot more focused and a whole lot more compelling.

Dean Devlin is definitely right about how not committing to a role for Godzilla really hurt the film. By refusing to anthropomorphize him, they failed to treat him as an actual character. But on Devlin's second point, I think putting the bulk of Nick and Audrey's character development in the second act was just a bad way of doing the real problem, which was centering the film around those two characters in the first place.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:29 pm

Benjamin Haines wrote:Pkmatrix, I agree with what you said a few posts back about making Hank Azaria's Animal and Jean Reno's Phillipe the main characters of the movie. By doing that and either reducing or eliminating the characters of Nick and Audrey, this film's story would have been a lot more focused and a whole lot more compelling.

Dean Devlin is definitely right about how not committing to a role for Godzilla really hurt the film. By refusing to anthropomorphize him, they failed to treat him as an actual character. But on Devlin's second point, I think putting the bulk of Nick and Audrey's character development in the second act was just a bad way of doing the real problem, which was centering the film around those two characters in the first place.
Pkmatrix wrote:Fixing those two points would've helped a LOT, and I'm glad he at least acknowledges those problems.

That the movie never decided whether we should root for or against Godzilla was a MAJOR problem, and is a big reason why the movie felt aimless and tonally lost. Had they just settled on Godzilla being the villain - which is what they clearly leaned more towards - the whole frickin' story would've changed. The "he's just an animal trying to survive" concept is the only reason we have these repeated sequences of Godzilla fleeing from the military, remove that mindset and I think they would've written something a little more traditionally Godzilla.

As others have pointed out, the movie is actually okay during it's Act One - not good, just okay. It's only after Godzilla's initial attack on New York does the movie fall apart. It's like they didn't know what to do after getting him to New York, so they flailed around for a whole act trying to come up with SOMETHING. Since they didn't want to portray Godzilla as the villain they had no antagonist, since they'd already established the military as the good guys. That's why most of the second act becomes a bad romantic comedy occasionally interrupted by Godzilla fleeing from the Army like the Roadrunner from the Wile E. Coyote. It picks up again in its third act, but by that point the story is so far removed from a 'Godzilla' movie (Godzilla is barely IN the movie after Act 2) it may as well be something else entirely.

They needed to make Godzilla the villain and if they wanted to establish these characters beyond what they were in Act One, it should've been in Act One. By not doing so it straight-up kills the rest of the movie and results in a horrifically BORING package. More than anything else, the movie just is NOT entertaining, it bores the hell out of the audience by about the half-way point and leaves us wondering why we bothered watching.


Both of these posts are spot on. I actually liked Act 1 of GINO...and everything until his first full reveal wasn't bad. After that, the Godzilla design and the way he is portrayed (running) just ruined it for me. Also, the acting is atrocious. The plot with the fish is stupid. The military causes more destruction than GINO does.

This movie just sucks.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Rody » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:31 pm

One of the problems I have with the film - which I think relates to the aformentioned script issues - is how the film tries to sell itself as a comedy, without doing so in a tasteful manner. Godzilla, Nick, and Audrey seem to carry the brunt of this. Godzilla, without a clearly defined villain role, is just an awkward creature trying to literally avoid conflict; by extension, the military looks ridiculous because the plot won't allow them to kill Godzilla right away, so they have to be incompetent. Nick is the stereotypical goofy, "nerdy" character who's out of his element but still manages to be the smartest guy in the room, so no one seems completely serious around him. Audrey is - ugh, I don't even know. Actually, I guess she's supposed to offer actual drama to the plot, but her character is so badly written and acted that she's just insufferable.

I totally agree that Animal and Phillipe would have made far more interesting leads.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby mbozzo » Sun May 17, 2015 8:21 pm

I have n oidea if I have posted about this movie in this forum, but if I didn't, i has to post how much I hate it. The monster wasn't even Godzilla. He may have given the same name, but he sure didn't act like it. The cartoon based on this movie was a little bit better. :P
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Mon May 25, 2015 9:44 pm

Why has there been a pushback in recent months and years to try and redeem this movie within social media and communities like on tumblr?

I... don't get it..
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Psycho Soldier » Mon May 25, 2015 10:22 pm

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:Why has there been a pushback in recent months and years to try and redeem this movie within social media and communities like on tumblr?

I... don't get it..


I have a couple hypotheses. Some people who were disappointed in G2014 would naturally (try to) look back on G98 with fondness, highlighting its good points compared to the new movie's bad ones. I've seen one or two people say G98 is the better film. Also, G98 has taken so much heat for 17 years that a counter-movement was bound to happen. Some people always want to stick up for the little guy, or be contrarians.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon May 25, 2015 11:10 pm

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon May 25, 2015 11:26 pm

Bruticus wrote:
Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:Why has there been a pushback in recent months and years to try and redeem this movie within social media and communities like on tumblr?

I... don't get it..


I have a couple hypotheses. Some people who were disappointed in G2014 would naturally (try to) look back on G98 with fondness, highlighting its good points compared to the new movie's bad ones. I've seen one or two people say G98 is the better film. Also, G98 has taken so much heat for 17 years that a counter-movement was bound to happen. Some people always want to stick up for the little guy, or be contrarians.


It's also worth noting that a lot of users on sites like Tumblr were born after GINO came out. They're probably less concerned with how accurately the Godzilla character is adapted and more enthralled with the fact that it's a lighthearted summer popcorn romp filled with action sequences that give the title monster a lot of screen time and plenty of humor for levity, all of which seems to be what many users on those kinds of sites wanted from G'2014.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby Specium Ray » Mon May 25, 2015 11:31 pm

I kind of like it? It's a bad Godzilla movie but it's not the worst kaiju movie I've ever seen.

Really, it's more of a nostalgia trip for me. All the older movies became easily available, there were a few cool books that came out, it was just a fun time to be a fan. I don't really want to defend the movie, it's plenty bad, I won't deny it. But I also grinned like an idiot when I saw the ZILLA seal on the back of the Final Wars DVD. You made her canon, Toho! She'll live forever now!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby RaptorG » Tue May 26, 2015 12:50 am

I no longer hate this movie as much as I did back then but the one thing that I can never forget is the many phases that I went through for it (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only Godzilla fans during the 90s that had it). At best I recall it like this:

Phase I: Denial
That one feeling of thinking you weren't sure if you liked the movie or if you did. You try to defend and justify your negative emotions.
Phase II: Anger
You start getting angry from questioning yourself more even though you knew you didn't like it.
Phase III: Submit/acknowledge
You then admit that your original feelings of trying to say the movie was good is false. You knew the movie was bad and you came to accept it as crap/garbage.

I actually gave this movie a re-watch a few weeks ago and I still can't stand any of the human cast. They just weren't lovable and for some reason I couldn't just stand Audrey as a character. I felt like she was the worst character that was written in that whole movie. If I had to draw just one picture to describe my understanding of her character is would be this:

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla (1998)

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue May 26, 2015 12:54 am

Denial was a big one for me. I saw it in theaters 3 times because I wasn't convinced that I hated it the first time, and then the third time was actually because the second projection broke with like 10 minutes left and they let us all come back another time to see it again. I was 13, a free movie was like...a free movie. :lol:
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