Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Spinning flame-jetted turtles, space birds being chopped up like bologna, kids in shorts screaming for help...the original Gamera series was a strange mix of wacky fun!! The 90's Gamera films set a standard that other kaiju films are measured against! Discuss Gamera films here!!

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Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:01 pm

I have zero trouble with the ambiguities of G3 OR GMK, honestly. I enjoy them, even.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:45 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:I have zero trouble with the ambiguities of G3 OR GMK, honestly. I enjoy them, even.


I don't really have trouble with them, but I don't quit enjoy them.
I really feel like things should have been even more ambiguous in GMK.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:11 pm

it's not the ambiguities i have issues with, it's the half-explanations or over-explanations....it's what they choose to explain vs. what they choose to leave ambiguous.

do i care that Irys is the long lost cousin of Gyaos? does it matter? does it enhance the story in any way?
no, no, no, no.

time that could have been spent better elsewhere.

optimization of the running time is much better in both GOTU and G2.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:27 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:it's not the ambiguities i have issues with, it's the half-explanations or over-explanations....it's what they choose to explain vs. what they choose to leave ambiguous.

do i care that Irys is the long lost cousin of Gyaos? does it matter? does it enhance the story in any way?
no, no, no, no.

time that could have been spent better elsewhere.

optimization of the running time is much better in both GOTU and G2.


This.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:29 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:optimization of the running time is much better in both GOTU and G2.


I may like GOTU least of Kaneko's monster films, but this is VERY true.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:01 am

Two thoughts I have about this film after watching it again last night:

The miniature sets in this film are ridiculous. Every single time I watch it, something new stands out and last night it was how f*cking lushly detailed the countryside is when we see the tracking shot of the missiles racing towards Legion in the final battle. I'd never really paid attention to how intricately crafted that particular shot was, though I guess it's not surprising given how intricately crafted EVERYTHING ELSE is. Also, there's some really fantastic integration of effects with live action elements with a real minimum of composite work. I noticed the use of one of my favorite techniques last night, actually, where they use a whip pan to transition from live action to miniature footage while making it appear as though they were the same shot. Hnnngggg--

Two, I love all the characters in this film and I can't believe some people write them off. The scene in Honami's room is one of my favorite scenes in the entire trilogy. :lol:
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:05 pm

The characters feel very "Honda-esque" to me. They're stock characters meant to progress the story line along. There's nothing offensively horrible about them and they're certainly better than any of the characters in almost any post 80's Godzilla film (G2K has great human characters though), but they still don't feel all that well developed to me.

I'd like more scenes like the one in Honami's room, granted, that'd slow the movie's pacing down but if there was a way to work more moments like that into the film I'd like to have seen it.

Anyways, I think the characters in GOTU and G3 are a little richer.

One thing that doesn't get stated enough about this film is the use of snow. It's a brilliant concept and one that I'd like to see more in genre movies.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:16 pm

I don't think the characters are awful, but they just don't stand out to me as much as the cast of GOTU and G3, as KG said.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm

Like I said in the G3 forum, re-read last year's kaiju issue of Famous Monster's, in particular, the article "Tomo'o Haraguchi vs. Fuyuki Shinada."

One cool bit regarding G2 is that it's mentioned that the SFX crew, when pitting Gamera vs the Mother Legion, wanted to evoke the image of Max Fleisher's Superman struggling to stop a speeding locomotive. I think this is wonderful comparison...it's something that's lurked in my mind, but that I've never been able to articulate until now.

One last thing. Does anyone else feel that Legion is kind of a unique kaiju foe because of it's motivation and demeanor? It's not really an "evil" or "bad" kaiju. It's just trying to live and reproduce and unfortunately, its existence is in direct conflict with the rest of the life on Earth.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:10 pm

It's not that unique in that aspect. One could argue that about a great many kaiju throughout the years.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:10 pm

I think that's part of what makes Legion unique, especially amongst the other alien kaiju we've seen in these films who are either outright evil (Ghidorah/Zigra/Viras/SpaceGodzilla) or being controlled by something else (Gigan/Guiron/...and Ghidorah later on). It's an animal that just happens to be from space.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:14 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:It's not that unique in that aspect. One could argue that about a great many kaiju throughout the years.


I think it is kind of unique for the film's major baddie. Yes, Rodan, Anguirus ect are all kaiju that are just trying to get by in this world, but most of Godzilla's baddies, and all of Gamera's up until G2 (maybe not Barugon) have been world conquerers or enemy kaiju with a mean streak,
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:20 pm

king_ghidorah wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:It's not that unique in that aspect. One could argue that about a great many kaiju throughout the years.


I think it is kind of unique for the film's major baddie. Yes, Rodan, Anguirus ect are all kaiju that are just trying to get by in this world, but most of Godzilla's baddies, and all of Gamera's up until G2 (maybe not Barugon) have been world conquerers or enemy kaiju with a mean streak,


If you're going to count having a mean streak, then Legion is right out. She was downright sadistic when Gamera ticked her off.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:20 pm

king_ghidorah wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:It's not that unique in that aspect. One could argue that about a great many kaiju throughout the years.


I think it is kind of unique for the film's major baddie. Yes, Rodan, Anguirus ect are all kaiju that are just trying to get by in this world, but most of Godzilla's baddies, and all of Gamera's up until G2 (maybe not Barugon) have been world conquerers or enemy kaiju with a mean streak,


Well wasn't Jiger more or less just a random kaiju that awakens and is all "Wtf is going on here?"

I just think he's unique amongst alien kaiju....but then I remembered Dogora which is also doing the "just an alien lifeform" thing.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:21 pm

Plus it's an extremely common occurrence in the Ultra series.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:23 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:Plus it's an extremely common occurrence in the Ultra series.


Yeah, but nobody watches those. Plus I was just discussing kaiju films.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:24 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:
king_ghidorah wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:It's not that unique in that aspect. One could argue that about a great many kaiju throughout the years.


I think it is kind of unique for the film's major baddie. Yes, Rodan, Anguirus ect are all kaiju that are just trying to get by in this world, but most of Godzilla's baddies, and all of Gamera's up until G2 (maybe not Barugon) have been world conquerers or enemy kaiju with a mean streak,


If you're going to count having a mean streak, then Legion is right out. She was downright sadistic when Gamera ticked her off.


She's essentially protecting her children. Remember the first time they fight? She fights him long enough to stop him and then essentially leaves.

I think she's an emotional creature (which is odd that we can even debate something like this about essentially a giant insect, which goes to credit this film) and her methods become increasingly violent during the second fight as she gets more and more ticked off.

Also, think about this. She doesn't seek out Gamera, nor does she try to do anymore damage to humanity than is neccesary.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:26 pm

I don't think it's emotional...a lot of animals protect their own and I wouldn't argue them having any kind of super emotional attachment about it.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:27 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:Plus it's an extremely common occurrence in the Ultra series.


Yeah, but nobody watches those. Plus I was just discussing kaiju films.


I have a really hard time not including them when they're largely a long-running series of kaiju short films. :lol:
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:29 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I don't think it's emotional...a lot of animals protect their own and I wouldn't argue them having any kind of super emotional attachment about it.


Emotional in the sense that she gets ticked off, hence the angry red eyes when she has her nose ripped off essentially. That's not very subtle....
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:30 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:Plus it's an extremely common occurrence in the Ultra series.


Yeah, but nobody watches those. Plus I was just discussing kaiju films.


I have a really hard time not including them when they're largely a long-running series of kaiju short films. :lol:


I was kidding, as you should know, but they're a long-running series of kaiju television episodes. I don't really bring them up when discussing kaiju films.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:32 pm

I don't really think you can simply write off monsters like Rodan and Baragon when trying to defend this point though. Hell, you could say the same of Megaguirus too. She was essentially a cheap Legion knockoff anyway. :lol:

MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:Plus it's an extremely common occurrence in the Ultra series.


Yeah, but nobody watches those. Plus I was just discussing kaiju films.


I have a really hard time not including them when they're largely a long-running series of kaiju short films. :lol:


I was kidding, as you should know, but they're a long-running series of kaiju television episodes. I don't really bring them up when discussing kaiju films.


I do because it all really starts to run together for me after awhile. Particularly because the Ultra series seems to be so much more monster-focused than other tokusatsu series. :lol:
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:33 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:I don't really think you can simply write off monsters like Rodan and Baragon when trying to defend this point though. Hell, you could say the same of Megaguirus too. She was essentially a cheap Legion knockoff anyway. :lol:


I've said before ALIEN kaiju.....Rodan and Baragon didn't come from space.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:34 pm

But you yourself pointed out Dogora!
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:34 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:I don't really think you can simply write off monsters like Rodan and Baragon when trying to defend this point though. Hell, you could say the same of Megaguirus too. She was essentially a cheap Legion knockoff anyway. :lol:


I'm not sure what your point is anymore lol. I think I've countered everything you said in your original point. I don't know what this new tom-foolery is.
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