Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Spinning flame-jetted turtles, space birds being chopped up like bologna, kids in shorts screaming for help...the original Gamera series was a strange mix of wacky fun!! The 90's Gamera films set a standard that other kaiju films are measured against! Discuss Gamera films here!!

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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun May 11, 2014 7:13 pm

klen7 wrote:The scenes where Gamera is deadish and people Tinkerbell him back to life and the scene where his deus ex machina chest pops open keep this film from displacing GOTU for me. Also there are a couple freeze frame scenes that tear me right of the film every time. Still its one of my favorite of the more modern kaiju flicks, but I'm more likely to watch GOTU or GtB given a choice between Gamera films.


I never felt like they tinkerbell him back to life. I thought he was just healing and drawing up mana (which isn't really explained until G3).
The deus ex machina chest doesn't bother me because Banishing fist doesn't bother me, nor does Gamera exploding and reconstituting himself in GOTU.
Seems pretty par for the course with a giant genetically engineered ancient turtle who uses earth magicks to fight stuff.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby klen7 » Sun May 11, 2014 9:28 pm

I do love this film. Probably my greatest memory of G-Fest is when Shinji Higuchi sat within arms reach of me at the Pickwick showing.
The engineer in me just gets down on the mysticism as "cheats" in a genre where i have already suspended my belief for a giant flying turtle (i guess thats the "one big lie" principle), so maybe i should just say GoTU cheats less than G2 :lol:
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon May 12, 2014 8:58 am

But...there's more Mysticism at work in GOTU than in G2. The only magic is Gamera, the rest is kind-of hard science fiction.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon May 12, 2014 9:17 am

Yeah, G2 actually rather downplays the "Gamera is connected to people acuz of mystical punctuation marks" thing. I mean, I kinda dig that in GOTU, but G2 is less fantastical by comparison.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Gman2887 » Mon May 12, 2014 11:43 am

klen7 wrote:I do love this film. Probably my greatest memory of G-Fest is when Shinji Higuchi sat within arms reach of me at the Pickwick showing.
The engineer in me just gets down on the mysticism as "cheats" in a genre where i have already suspended my belief for a giant flying turtle (i guess thats the "one big lie" principle), so maybe i should just say GoTU cheats less than G2 :lol:


Yeah, I tend to agree. This is before Gamera 3 gave audiences the explanation as to how and why Gamera was able to pull these massive rabbits out of his ass-- which is nice when it finally comes, but moments like his fully healed trick in GOTU and the Guyver moment in G2 are just like: "You do this now? You could've done this the entire time, but you do it now?" It doesn't bother me that much, but it is enough to feel like a cheat. Especially when the less interesting characters in the film spend so much time looking for Legion's weakness.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby king_ghidorah » Mon May 12, 2014 1:02 pm

klen7 wrote:The scenes where Gamera is deadish and people Tinkerbell him back to life and the scene where his deus ex machina chest pops open keep this film from displacing GOTU for me. Also there are a couple freeze frame scenes that tear me right of the film every time. Still its one of my favorite of the more modern kaiju flicks, but I'm more likely to watch GOTU or GtB given a choice between Gamera films.


Agreed. G2 suffers from a lack of interesting human characters/development. Also, GOTU has probably the perfect amount of kaiju action ever in a film. Each battle/kaiju scene is distinct and there are plently of them.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Rodanex » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:23 pm

So, I have a question about the scene where Gamera revives. We see all those sparks converging and forming that "apostrophe" shape in the air above him, and then Asagi's stone breaks, and then he revives. As a kid, I always kind of interpreted this as Asagi was using the stone to give Gamera some energy to help him heal, but the process of healing from such grave injuries basically burned out the stone and it broke. Do you guys think this is what happened, or was Gamera just summoning mana and the stone broke because Gamera wanted to sever his connection with Asagi?

While we're talking about Asagi, she says that she can't feel Gamera's heart anymore after Gamera heals her wounds at the end of GOTU. I always assumed Gamera severed that connection as a way of saying thanks. Sorta like, "Thanks for helping me, but I don't want you to get hurt anymore." In G2, Asagi doesn't share wounds with Gamera, so it would appear that her connection with Gamera was indeed severed, even before the stone broke. But she does get really weak after Gamera's battle with Legion at the airport....which would seem to suggest there is still some connection. And then there's the above-mentioned scene, where it again implies she still has some connection with him. So do you think basically she is still somewhat connected to Gamera, just not as closely as in GOTU?
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Gman2887 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:22 am

It seems by Gamera 2 more people had those jewels connecting them to Gamera. Gamera was probably drawing strength from more than just Asagi, alleviating some of the burden on her. Once the stones were destroyed Gamera had completely severed all links with humanity, likely resulting in his carelessness in Gamera 3.

Some fans theorize that Ayana was Gamera's last remaining link to humanity by the end of Gamera 3 and that he had done it without the need for a trinket.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Rodanex » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:14 pm

So am I correct in assuming there is still some psychic link between Gamera and Asagi after the end of GOTU, but it is completely severed once the stone breaks? And all those kids that were gathering around Gamera when he's healing, they all had stones too? Maybe their parents were all involved in that investigation from GOTU?
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Gman2887 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:02 pm

Rodanex wrote:So am I correct in assuming there is still some psychic link between Gamera and Asagi after the end of GOTU, but it is completely severed once the stone breaks? And all those kids that were gathering around Gamera when he's healing, they all had stones too? Maybe their parents were all involved in that investigation from GOTU?


Maybe. I don't assume all the stones were found on the atoll, but discovered all over the world. There's really no onscreen evidence of this, but it seems during the year between GOTU and G2 some sort of Gamera cult accrued and I find it hard to believe the stones they found were limited to that atoll.

As for Asagi, I think the link could still exist as long as she had the stone. By the end of the first film I figure Gamera thinks he's caused her enough trouble and cuts the power to the link. So-to-speak.

Again, a lot of this is mere assumption, but I think there's enough established mythology in these three movies where it's not without merit.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby lhb412 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:28 am

Just watched the English dub of this film for the first time in years and really enjoyed it. Probably the strongest dub in my lifetime... mind you, G2K is the only real competition there.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby lhb412 » Mon May 16, 2016 10:33 pm

... wait, I've heard that the ants from THEM! were an inspiration for the Legion (especially the drones), but could the "My name is Legion" quote from the Bible be a reference to Edmund Gwenn quoting the Bible in THEM! ?
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Dai » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:03 am

I watched this again for the first time in a few years, and it never disappoints. Where G3 was a natural extention of the film-making style and themes of GOTU, G2 has always felt like a stylistic tangent for Kaneko. Normally, characters are the driving force of his stories, but Gamera 2 is essentially a docu-drama, making it somewhat unique among kaiju movies. The characters are imbued with Kaneko's usual eye for charming detail, but this is never their story, but rather the story of the situation they find themselves in, and how both humanity and Gamera work to understand and resolve it. This is taken to startling extremes in places. Unless I missed it, we aren't told the names of many of the main characters until at least 40 minutes into the movie, and they're rarely repeated. I don't think we're ever told what Science Chick's job is at the Science Centre, or where Soldier Guys fit into the structure of the military, since they're in the field long before the prime minister mobilises the SDF. Normally skipping these kinds of basic details would bother me, but here it just doesn't matter. By using shorthand for the characters, Kaneko is able to maintain a fast-paced bombardment of mysteries, problems, and the frantic search for solutions: meteorites, weird atmospheric phenomena, disappearing glass and fibre optics, murders, monsters, a giant flower growing out of a building, impending city-leveling explosions, and that's just in the first half hour!

Also, to weigh in on the much-laboured mana beam, I don't see that as deus ex machina. To me, the moment Asagi's magatama broke, that was Kaneko telling us visually, "Something has changed. The situation has escalated. The old rules no longer apply." It obeys the basic rules for one-shot final attacks, in that it takes time to charge, requires the user to remain still, and therefore requires the enemy to have been beaten down sufficiently to keep them in one place for a moment. Also, lets not forget that it causes Gamera's chest to crack open. That alone should tell you that it was an act of desperation, and not something he would use to dry his laundry.

Oh, and this was the first time I noticed that the train driver who gets murdered was Tomoro Taguchi, who played the main character in Tetsuo: The Iron Man. How did I watch this movie so many times and not recognise his trademark elastic expressions of horror?
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby tbeasley » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:27 am

Dai wrote:Oh, and this was the first time I noticed that the train driver who gets murdered was Tomoro Taguchi, who played the main character in Tetsuo: The Iron Man. How did I watch this movie so many times and not recognise his trademark elastic expressions of horror?

He appears in Gamera 3 and Gamera the Brave as well!
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby lhb412 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:16 pm

Wha? There were two people inside the Legion costume?! I just assumed wires were used for the back parts like with Godzilla's tail.

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Dai wrote:I watched this again for the first time in a few years, and it never disappoints. Where G3 was a natural extention of the film-making style and themes of GOTU, G2 has always felt like a stylistic tangent for Kaneko. Normally, characters are the driving force of his stories, but Gamera 2 is essentially a docu-drama, making it somewhat unique among kaiju movies. The characters are imbued with Kaneko's usual eye for charming detail, but this is never their story, but rather the story of the situation they find themselves in, and how both humanity and Gamera work to understand and resolve it.


I love the procedural nature of this movie's story.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:43 pm

I believe the Queen Legion suit had Mizuho Yoshida (Dagahra, GMK Godzilla, Zedus) walking in the front half. I don't know whose job it was to lie down and operate the back half. Someone who has the Heisei Gamera Perfection book from 2014 could probably find out.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby lhb412 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:04 pm

^He was also Zeiram, right?
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:58 pm

lhb412 wrote:^He was also Zeiram, right?


Looks like it, in both movies.

IMDB also lists him as the titular monster in Deep Sea Monster Reigo. I still need to see that.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby tbeasley » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:36 pm

lhb412 wrote:Wha? There were two people inside the Legion costume?! I just assumed wires were used for the back parts like with Godzilla's tail.

When I first found this out it completely blew my mind.

There's some great behind the scenes stuff on the Mill Creek Blu-ray with the Legion suit crawling around in the open.
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby Ultraseven » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:07 pm

I love Godzilla as much as anyone here, but Gamera AoL is still the best kaiju movie i have seen (and i have seen pretty much all of them, Ultraverse included). Perfect pace, the right amount of kaiju action and human interaction, and Legion is one of the best kaiju suits ever. Add well characterized military and enough hard scifi and mystical setups... i don't know if it was a fortunate Kaneko's fluke compared with the more magic-inclined GotU, G3 and GMK, but it is a masterpiece nonetheless.
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