Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Spinning flame-jetted turtles, space birds being chopped up like bologna, kids in shorts screaming for help...the original Gamera series was a strange mix of wacky fun!! The 90's Gamera films set a standard that other kaiju films are measured against! Discuss Gamera films here!!

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Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:34 pm

The Basics:

A metor strikes Japan, unleashing an army of insect like kaiju that only the combined forces of the JSDF and Gamera can defeat.

The Plot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamera_2:_Attack_of_Legion


The Kaiju:

Gamera:
Looking slightly different from his 95 appearance here. He now has permenant spikes on his elbows and his face has thinned out a lot. This is a fan favorite Gamera suit.

Legion Soldiers:
Pretty cool. A step up from the tiny Destroyer soldiers. Very alien like in appearance.

Legion Flower:
Pulled right out of Ultra Q, which is fine by me because I love Ultra Q!!

Legion Mother:
Really awesome kaiju pulled off in the conventional man (men) in suit method! It almost seems impossible to believe that men can fit inside that suit but they do making for one of the most incredible kaiju design ever put on the big screen.

The Acting:
Great all around, with the standouts being members of the JSDF.

The SPFX:
While Gamera: GOTU had some pretty good effects, G2 knocks it out of the park. The best kaiju effects put on film up to that point. There's some wonky CGI with the legion soldiers swarming over Gamera, but it's still better than the practical effects used in Godzilla vs. Destroyer for essentially the same shot. The suits used in this film are among the very best ever for a kaiju film.

The Other Stuff:

-The Legion seems like something pulled right out of Ultra Q, which combined with the very Honda esque film, really makes this feel like a fan boy dream cross over of Gamera/Ultra Q.

-Gamera gets some Showa era battle damage in this film, nice to see him rise up and score a win after being wounded so badly

-Not a huge fan of the way Kaneko sometimes pulls monkeys out of kaiju's butts for "SUPAAA!!!, Epic!!, Finishing MOVES!!!!!"

-This is probably my personal fave of the Gamera trilogy, though G3 has my favorite scene in it

-The science used in this film is incredible, it seems like Kaneko did some research for this film, and Legion's life cycle, and it shows :D

-The English dub for this film is about as cheesy as they come
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Re: Gamera 2: Advent of Legion Talkback

Postby The Real McCoy » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:54 pm

king_ghidorah wrote:-Not a huge fan of the way Kaneko sometimes pulls monkeys out of kaiju's butts for "SUPAAA!!!, Epic!!, Finishing MOVES!!!!!"

You know, before you, I felt like the only fan in the entire universe that thought this. Great special effects and everything, but it reminds me of Godzilla's nuclear pulse/spiral ray: a complete cop-out. So she had a shield that deflected Gamera's fireballs. Have Gamera get up in her face where the shields wouldn't be effective quick enough and blast her face off. But, when stacked up next to the rest of the movie, it's hardly noticeable. The best acting definitely goes to the SDF. The thing I loved about this film is how they made Gamera so tragic; he would fight no matter what, even when facing an almost unbeatable opponent. This concept would be even further built upon in the next film, but that's another discussion. This is a great movie, hands down.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:58 pm

The mana blast at the end never bothered me - particularly because of how they would up playing off of it in the next film since if becomes a question of, "Did Gamera save us? Or did he f*ck us over ever worse?"

The miniatures in this film are GODLY. I about died standing in Higuchi's presence at GFEST this year, knowing the work he created in these movies. I think the only thing that saved me was just what an unassuming, jovial fellow he was. :lol:
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Postby king_ghidorah » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:08 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:The mana blast at the end never bothered me - particularly because of how they would up playing off of it in the next film since if becomes a question of, "Did Gamera save us? Or did he f*ck us over ever worse?"

The miniatures in this film are GODLY. I about died standing in Higuchi's presence at GFEST this year, knowing the work he created in these movies. I think the only thing that saved me was just what an unassuming, jovial fellow he was. :lol:


It was nice that they explained that in the third film...but it felt like an afterthought...as if Kaneko felt guilty for the monkey he pulled...only to pull an equally insane monkey from his butt at the end of the third film

The minatures are godly though
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:10 pm

I'm sure it was an afterthought (that's how sequels are typically made, after all) but I, for one, think it was ingenious.
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Postby heroforhirerob » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:02 pm

This is a pretty good film....and does a good job of explaining itself to the audience. About the only thing I don't like is Legion's annoying screeching roar. Beyond that, this one is a winner.
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Postby MouthForWar » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:50 am

This is my favorite of the trilogy and probably my favorite Gamera movie period. Here, everything works. It doesn't feel like as much of a "generic monster movie" as the first movie and it doesn't have the convoluted screenplay of the third movie. This is the one in the trilogy that just gets everything right.

This movie is total Ishiro Honda worship from the way it gets into the science of the monsters to the military scenes. The Legion (Legions?) are some of the most interesting monsters to come out of the last 20 years and I love how it tells us how their species works. And Legion (as well as Iris) could easily be mistaken for Angels from Evangelion (most likely due to Shinji Higuchi's masterful work).

This also has my favorite Gamera suit. Not as "nice" looking as in part 1 and not as "mean" looking as in part 3. The perfect balance.

For a while, this was my least favorite of the three, but as I've gotten older, this movie has just grown on me like a tumor... I can't get enough of it!
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Postby king_ghidorah » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:54 am

It's grown on me as well...

It's the most "Honda" like film that he never filmed...masterful stuff, it's so hard to pay homage to someone else's work but Kaneko did it perfectly here...it's an homage but it's also it's own thing

I used to love the G2 suit but I've grown to love the G1 suit now, still prefer the G2 to the G3 tho(it's Gamera...making him a little bit fiercer is ok but I feel like Gamera should always be a little friendly looking, G3 makes him a little too Godzilla esque)
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Postby MouthForWar » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:10 am

king_ghidorah wrote:It's grown on me as well...

It's the most "Honda" like film that he never filmed...masterful stuff, it's so hard to pay homage to someone else's work but Kaneko did it perfectly here...it's an homage but it's also it's own thing

I used to love the G2 suit but I've grown to love the G1 suit now, still prefer the G2 to the G3 tho(it's Gamera...making him a little bit fiercer is ok but I feel like Gamera should always be a little friendly looking, G3 makes him a little too Godzilla esque)


I agree that Gamera should be friendlier looking, but I get why he looks the way he does in G3. I think it was to emphasize that he's lost his connection to humanity since G2 after the amulets were destroyed.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:11 am

MouthForWar wrote:
king_ghidorah wrote:It's grown on me as well...

It's the most "Honda" like film that he never filmed...masterful stuff, it's so hard to pay homage to someone else's work but Kaneko did it perfectly here...it's an homage but it's also it's own thing

I used to love the G2 suit but I've grown to love the G1 suit now, still prefer the G2 to the G3 tho(it's Gamera...making him a little bit fiercer is ok but I feel like Gamera should always be a little friendly looking, G3 makes him a little too Godzilla esque)


I agree that Gamera should be friendlier looking, but I get why he looks the way he does in G3. I think it was to emphasize that he's lost his connection to humanity since G2 after the amulets were destroyed.


Yeah, I get that too....it works for the film, but it's not a design I care to see revisited
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Postby MouthForWar » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:16 am

king_ghidorah wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:
king_ghidorah wrote:It's grown on me as well...

It's the most "Honda" like film that he never filmed...masterful stuff, it's so hard to pay homage to someone else's work but Kaneko did it perfectly here...it's an homage but it's also it's own thing

I used to love the G2 suit but I've grown to love the G1 suit now, still prefer the G2 to the G3 tho(it's Gamera...making him a little bit fiercer is ok but I feel like Gamera should always be a little friendly looking, G3 makes him a little too Godzilla esque)


I agree that Gamera should be friendlier looking, but I get why he looks the way he does in G3. I think it was to emphasize that he's lost his connection to humanity since G2 after the amulets were destroyed.


Yeah, I get that too....it works for the film, but it's not a design I care to see revisited


Oh, same here. I love the trilogy, but I totally agree with what you said back in the podcast thread about not really needing more Gamera films of this kind. I think Gamera the Brave was definitely the best approach to a post-Kaneko Gamera film. Take what made both Showa and Heisei series' great and make it into a new thing altogether.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:36 pm

this was, is and has always been my favorite Gamera film.

I just love the feel that this whole movie has, from Gamera to Legion to the non-chalant destruction of an entire city, the suit designs, the actual biology of Legion, and yeah, even the super-mega finishing move

this movie is my perfect kaiju film in a lot of ways.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:55 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:this was, is and has always been my favorite Gamera film.

I just love the feel that this whole movie has, from Gamera to Legion to the non-chalant destruction of an entire city, the suit designs, the actual biology of Legion, and yeah, even the super-mega finishing move

this movie is my perfect kaiju film in a lot of ways.


I think its probably my favorite Alien kaiju vs. regular kaiju movie. I mean, I love Monster Zero, but it seems like after that all alien kaiju (excluding Hedorah....who I'm not sure whether or not he's an alien kaiju or not given his origins) follow that pattern, including the Showa Gamera stuff.

Legion puts the SCIENCE in science fiction monster. Plus the fact Gamera is so mystical in this trilogy, it makes the battle all the more fascinating and fun.
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Postby Dagarah72 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:04 am

I've always found this film to be badass! It was definitely a big improvement over Gamera Guardian of the Universe. The legion soldiers and queen designs were incredible, and the fights were spectacular. I've always loved the Gamera trilogy, so much so that I really hated Gamera The Brave. Gamera 2 is by far one of the best kaiju films ever put to celluloid.


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Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:14 am

I like Gamera the Brave...


That said, this is one of my top five favorite kaiju films ever.
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Postby TripMasterMunky » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:15 am

MouthForWar wrote:This is my favorite of the trilogy and probably my favorite Gamera movie period. Here, everything works. It doesn't feel like as much of a "generic monster movie" as the first movie and it doesn't have the convoluted screenplay of the third movie. This is the one in the trilogy that just gets everything right.


Yeah this basically sums up my thoughts. G3 used to be my favorite, but after watching the trilogy again, I really dig G2 now as my favorite Gamera film ever.

It's a straight-forward plot with depth into the monsters. Perfect for showing a non-kaiju fan a good kaiju film. G1 is great but a tad generic. G3 you have to explain to the non-kaiju fan "so uhh....she can connect with this monster, becuase of this stone....and uh....she could/kinda still does connect to gamera....gyaos? yeah thats another monster from another film. No they're not the main enemy in this one they're just there."

I love how creepy the Legion soldiers can be. The subway scene is great with the footsteps all around the car with the people inside. Also all the legion soldiers that overload Gamera after destroying the flower looks so damn cool and you kinda feel bad for how beat down Gamera is getting. Mother Legion is pretty cool, I feel her design can be kinda confusing though. Legs/Arms/head/tail/etc - it all kinda blends together. There's not an exact clear silhouette to her form. Still a cool beast overall though.

I feel Gyaos and Legion can convey expressions/thoughts pretty well to the audience. You can tell when they're freaked/worn-down/or just pissed. Iris in G3 you can't really do sure. Her face is just a block of geometry really with no real emotion.
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Postby Dr Kain » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:47 pm

Continuing where the last movie ended, this movie evolves Gamera even moreso than before. His appearance looks more reptillian, his eyes seemed to slim down, and the effects just keep getting better. The way Legion was handled as being an alien was very nicely done and I am glad they did not go with the whole alien beings who look like humans aspect the Showa series has done. Not just that, but seeing Tokyo Tower still in ruins was a nice touch, and continues the trend of the more realistic appraoch this series started in the first one. Also using technology as a means for Legion was interesting and it just makes me wonder what a real Legion invasion would be like in the world we live in now, where 99% of the population has oodles of technology on them. I like the reoccuring characters with Asagi returning, and the continuation of the plotline of what Gamera is. This takes everything that was great about the first one and just ups it ten times.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:44 pm

Jesus. Watching this movie, and it astounds me just HOW good it is. The effects (minus some low budget CGI that is thankfully used SPARINGLY), the super well done story, the music....just everything. It's my favorite Gamera film and may be my 2nd favorite japanese giant monster movie next to the original Gojira.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:08 pm

It's a darned good film. The only thing that prevents me from liking it more are the human characters which just aren't as strong as GOTU or Gamera 3.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:25 pm

I think they're at least on par with G3's characters, but GOTU does have it beat...but then again I think G2 beats those two films in every other way so it doesn't really hold it back that much in my eyes.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:38 pm

Yeah GOTU has the best cast. G2 the best narrative and G3 has the best effects.

I think I probably watch GOTU and G3 more but I think G2 is probably the best of the bunch in most ways. It's deff the fan favorite.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:49 pm

I agree with those, but I always got the sense that G3 was the fan favorite.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:19 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I agree with those, but I always got the sense that G3 was the fan favorite.


I think 5 years ago it was but it seems more and more people have switched to G2. I might be imagining it.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:03 pm

Ok, I've suddenly switched back. The G2 suit is once again my favorite suit. It's odd...but like the Hesei Godzilla...when I close my eyes the G2 Gamera is the Gamera I see in my mind's eye. Gotta agree with Kyle here...the G2 suit is near perfect. A great balance of the dark and light aspects of the character.
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Postby MouthForWar » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:13 pm

king_ghidorah wrote:Gotta agree with Kyle here...the G2 suit is near perfect. A great balance of the dark and light aspects of the character.


Welcome to the team!

I still maintain that its the best he's ever looked!
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